INDEX:
10:00 – MRS. COLLETTI’S PORCH
14:30 - PROHIBITION
26:00 - NEIGHBORHOOD DIVERSITY
33:00 - GRANDMA’S COOKIES
38:15 - ITALIAN WORKMEN’S CLUB
41:00 - JOHN ICKE
48:00 - URBAN RENEWAL IN GREENBUSH
51:30 - RESPONSE TO URBAN RENEWAL
1:00:02 - WHERE DID YOU GO ON A DATE?
[START OF RECORDING]
[SOUND OF PEOPLE TALKING]
FRANK ALFANO (FA): Living History of the Madison Public Library is a pilot effort to work with community members and organizations to gather and preserve Madison history. The community history panel tonight, these distinguished people, sets off an ongoing set of events that will range from one on one interviews to group story sharing and events. Living History is not possible without community members who are willing to share their stories. The first set of events for Living History are place-based, meaning focused on a particular neighborhood; in tonight’s case, the historic Greenbush Neighborhood.
As you can imagine, once I started looking around, the first place that came to mind is the Greenbush. That’s why we’re here tonight. Upcoming efforts will focus on the East Dayton Neighborhood and South Madison. If you can speak to the history of either of these neighborhoods or know folks who can, please follow up with the people from the library and the City here tonight after we’re done.
To introduce the panel; we have Nick Baldarotta, from the Italian Workman’s Club; John Caliva, with the Workman’s Club; Katie Stassi-West, with the Italian-American Women’s Club; Sam Moss, a member of the Jewish community, is from the Bush era; and Tony Bruno, who is with the Italian Workman’s Club.
To introduce two people; Laura Damon-Moore, who is with the Madison Public Library; and Amy Scanlon, who is with the City of Madison Planning Department. They’re the two who contacted us original. With our president back there, Dave Rizzo, it’s sort of comical, they had this whole program worked out [about] why we should get involved with this. We’d be in the Italian Workman’s Club. Probably about five minutes into their presentation, we said, “Give us a date. When do you want to do it?” I think it ruined their whole program, and they’re still wondering what’s going on.
(laughter)
I’ll ask a question and then direct it to each of these people for an answer. We’ve done this before, and some of the answers can be rather interesting.
First question: what is your association with the Greenbush Neighborhood? Nick?
NICK BALDAROTTA (NB): I was born in the Greenbush. I was born right across the street on Park Street. I lived in the neighborhood until I was 21. I know a lot about the Greenbush and the Italian neighborhood that we had and the things that we did. It was a great neighborhood. I don’t think any of us had any keys—didn’t have to lock your doors at night because nobody was going to bother you.
The biggest thing is that everybody had a porch. In the summertime, there was no air conditioning, everybody’s outside. When you walk through the neighborhood, you have to say hello to everybody, so everybody knows you. So when I was a kid, if I did something wrong—and we never had a telephone—when I got home, my mother would be here like this (laughter), and I was about this far off the ground. So it was a unique neighborhood.
FA: You never did anything wrong, though, right?
NB: I never did anything right! I kept pleading my case, but my mom just didn’t believe me.
FA: All right. John?
JOHN CALIVA (JC): I’m John Caliva. I grew up in the Bush—717 Mound Street. I’m a proud Sicilian. My grandmother and grandfather Caliva came over here in 1911 on the Italia. They came through Louisiana, worked their way up to Madison. My mother’s parents came through Ellis Island, 1913. They all settled in the Bush, one of the best neighborhoods, ever, in all of Dane County, possibly the state, until they had some idiot with a urban renewal project—
FA: We’ll get to that later.
(laughter)
JC: Okay. Alright. Fine! Like I said, I’m proud to be here, keep our heritage alive, and hope you people will understand our feelings as we go along. Thanks, Frank.
FA: Thank you. Tony? Tony?
TONY BRUNO (TB): My turn?
FA: Yeah, you’re Tony.
TB: I’m Tony Bruno. I grew—the house I lived in was right where Dean Clinic is right across the street here. I lived here in my grandfather’s house. Later on we moved to the end of Regent Street. Tantillo’s Grocery was on the corner of Regent and West Wash. Paley’s junkyard was next to that, and our three-flat was next to that. When I was in sixth grade, we moved to a foreign country—corner of Orchard and Bowen Court down in the Saint James Neighborhood with all the Germans. But managed to hang around here in the Bush. Went to St. Joseph’s Grade School, which is no longer, on the corner there, and St. Joseph’s Church.
FA: Sammy?
SAM MOSS (SM): I was born in 1939 and I was born in Madison here. I’ve lived here most of my life. We had the Milwaukee Bakery, which I’ll talk about later. I moved back to Madison after a corporate career out of the country, in 1972, I think. I’ve been here since then.
FA: Thank you. Katie?
KATIE STASSI-WEST (KSW): Katie Stassi-West. I grew up mostly on the 800 block of Regent Street in the middle of it, and there were all Italians and Albanians on that block. Actually there were only two Italian families in that whole block all that time. Let’s see—I’m a third generation member of our club. I’ve been a member of our club for 70-some years—can’t believe it. I joined when I was 18 years old. Because you had to be a member—you had to be 18 years old in order to get into the club, and I have a lot of friends right in this whole place right here. My grandfather was one of about five brothers that came over to this country at the same time, and he was a Parisi. All those Parisis had a lot of Parisi children. And on top of that, he had two sisters who were—one married a Cuccia and one married a Cerniglia. So if you had one drop of Parisi blood, and you were related to everybody in that neighborhood. I miss it a lot. I come by here and I just cannot believe what these buildings are doing to our—when we played, the streets were—Regent Street was very narrow at that time. We played in the streets at night, but I’ll tell you about that later, too.
TB: My mother’s name was Stassi, so Katie and I are cousins.
(laughter)
FA: They often say anybody in the Bush, they were all cousins, one way or another. (laughter)
JC: All cuginos.
TB: Everybody were cousins.
FA: Parisis and Stassis, and, you know. Okay. Next is: share a story about a person or a place related to Greenbush history that you want people to know. Nick?
NB: White Front Grocery Store.
JC: All right!
NB: White Front Grocery Store was on the corner of Mound Street and South Lake Street, and that was a gathering place for all of us kids. We’d go to the park almost every day, so we’d always meet there. Then we’d go out to Brittingham Park and play, and do other stuff, then come back. It was a gathering place for all the kids in the neighborhood. We had a lot of fun. It was a great place.
FA: John?
JC: He’s talking about White Front Grocery. That’s my uncle’s grocery store. They never knew his last name; they’d just call him Mr. Jim. White Front.
NB: Hey, Mr. Jim, yeah.
JC: Last name was Caruso. My favorite place was right down in the next block. Mrs. Coletti’s porch. In the evening, after supper, after everything was done—homework, everything—all of us young men would go to Mrs. Coletti’s porch. We stop either at Mr. Aiello’s, Mr. Jim’s, Mr. Cuccia’s, and get a nickel bag of "semenzies". For you who don’t know what semenzies are, they’re squash seeds. Salted squash seeds. For a nickel, you get a bag like this. We would sit there and crack semenzies until your lips parched. (laughter) Or until Mrs. Coletti says, “you’re going to sweep them up, and you’re not going to leave until they’re all gone.” And that was our gathering spot.
FA: Okay. Thanks. Tony?
TB: Down the street here, next to Buckingham’s Tavern, it used to be Di Salvo’s Grocery Store. Right across the street, Greenbush Monument is there. That used to be Sinaiko’s Junkyard in that area there, and my cousin Dominic and I would sneak in there on Sunday because there was nobody there; they weren’t open on Sunday. And we’d find the leftover batteries from the railroad lanterns—they were all battery operated at that time, and there was always some juice left in that battery. And we’d have a little crystal set, and we’d make a radio from however many batteries we could hook together, and connect it to that little crystal set. We could get—we used to get WGN in Chicago, and we thought that was the greatest thing we ever heard of, was to get all the way to Chicago and listen to the news from Chicago, which was not ever good, but, it was something.
FA: Sam?
SM: I made some notes on one story that I wanted to tell. It’s an interesting story told to me by my Uncle Simon, known as Buck, original name Moskowski, as all the males in our family were. Mine was changed in the 40s when I was still a minor, so it wasn’t my choice. I was named after my grandfather, who passed away in 1934. He was a baker, original baker, and I wasn’t born until 1938. The name was changed in the mid-40s. If it were up to me, I would not have changed my name because I respected him so much I would not have done that. It was a matter of convenience, I guess, for most of my uncles.
Anyway, what I wanted to talk about was—which is not really talked about very often—is the era of the prohibition in the Greenbush area, how it impacted here. And I only know it, because I wasn’t alive at that time, from my Uncle—I call him Shim, Simon Buck—what he told me about it. One such family was the Romano family that lived on the 800 block on Milton Street, which doesn’t exist anymore. At least four of the very stout Romano boys I knew—Tony, Frank—I knew him as Fluffy—Ben, and Paul. Paul, also known as Popeye, was a particularly good friend of my Uncle Shim. They were both on the—members of the 1940-1941 Central High School Big 8 championship football team.
During prohibition era, it was not uncommon for home brewing activity to occur in many Greenbush homes, including the Romanos’. I think the statute of limitations is over on that and they’re all passed away now, so—
TB: They’re safe now.
(laughter)
SM: Yeah! The revenuers are not out looking for anyone now. Anyway, the ingredients required to process brew included sugar. Sugar was restricted to the general population by the federal government, so you could only get so much of it; they didn’t want people making the brew. But it wasn’t restricted if you had a bakery. I remember in the old days in our storage area in the back of the bakery, there was 100 pound sacks of flour of various sorts, sugar, salt, and other ingredients that were used in the baking process. Our bakery was opened in 1924 and remained open until the early 50s, for 28 years I believe.
The philosophy in Greenbush was, you could say, was you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours. That was the Greenbush store and home philosophy. Our Milwaukee Bakery was protected from vandalism, and sugar was dispersed by our bakery as needed.
(laughter)
Shim told me that it was not unusual for him to bring some French bread over to the Romano home for a spaghetti meal. During one such occasion, the Federal Revenuers knocked on the door, and the four big Romano boys blocked the door until they dispersed of the ingredients. (laughs)
(laughter)
I don’t know how Paul became known as Popeye—that’s what I always called him—but there was a cartoon in that era with the character named Popeye the One-Eyed Sailor. And I—do you remember that?
KSW: Yep, Popeye the sailor man.
SM: —who ate spinach and had a girlfriend named Olive Oil. I’m sure Paul ate more pasta than spinach, and I don’t know that he had a girlfriend named Olive Oil. He may have, but I didn’t know that. Both my Uncle Shim and he enlisted in the Navy, so they have that, you know, there was a draft back then, it was no volunteer enlistment then. You were either drafted or you enlisted. And they were in the Navy, both of them.
After returning, Popeye had tryouts with the Bears, and I remember seeing him play at Breese Stevens Field in 1948 for the, I think the Wausau Muskies, which was a semi-pro team, against a Detroit team that—
I think he passed away the same year as my mother in 1994. That’s why I remember it, because it’s the same month my mother passed away in—a fairly young man. He was considered by Central High School, Gus Pollock, the football coach, as one of the best of his Italian running backs, and the most versatile of them. There were others, but particularly him. After he returned and tried out for the Bears and played the semi-pro team, he—I think all the Romano brothers that I knew worked for the City of Madison in one capacity or another. Paul was an inspector for the Property Inspector when he passed away. That’s the story I wanted to— (unintelligible)
audio jumps
KSW: Education was very important in our neighborhood. Our—all the parents really didn’t have a good one; they wanted their children to have one. Actually, we produced—we had a doctor, a dentist, a lot of nurses, a court reporter—that was me—(laughs) and they went—most of the kids on our block went to school, went to Central. I went to West because we happened to be living on the other side of Park Street at the time that my brother started school, so we got to go to—
Summers you played with all of them. It was—the language was terrible, really, and I was right in the middle of them. But I went—after school started, I went to West, and I never swore once, not once all the time I was there, but—just a little cycle, but it was so right, it was so easy to do when you were with all these kids.
I just had—I just grew up in a great neighborhood. I didn’t realize it at the time how great it was.
But our people were—we had a lot, we had, I think, about four girls in the WACs, in the WAVES. Every boy, every family had a boy or son in the—that was drafted. But, no, I know—but they, we just—I think about them and I think what they’re doing and I just realize that I’m just older than any of them were at the time, but they were—they did a lot for our neighborhood. Italian boys were very popular, they were very good athletes. So they were very popular and very well respected, too. The girls, we didn't do a lot. We didn't get a chance to do a lot because you were supposed to stay home and learn how to sew and things like that, but it was a great neighborhood to grow up in. I have very many happy memories.
FA: So the Italian boys were popular [because] they were good looking too?
KSW: I know it! They were! (laughter) They are—everybody wanted them. All those American girls, as we called them. (laughter)
TB: Ameriganis! Ameriganis!
FA: All right now. Remember, this is being video-taped. (laughter) This program is being developed—next question—as a way to preserve the day-to-day activities that seem ordinary in the moment, but become extraordinary as time goes on and times change. Share an ordinary day-to-day story that will show the neighborhood’s extraordinary qualities. Katie, we’ll make you first this time.
KSW: Oh great, oh, let’s see. Well, I’d have to go back to education; that’s what did it. We had boys that were going to study in subjects that no one even heard of, you know—would have done 30 years before that—they were very well—the Scaro boys, the Peckara girls—they all went into high—they all got college degrees, they—some have masters, some have PhDs. You probably don’t even know who they—people don’t even know who they are, but they—I remember all of them, and I always wanted to be like that, but I never was quite as smart as they were. My mother wanted me to be a secretary, you know, so I went to business school and got to be a secretary, and I never liked it. So I—that’s when I went into court reporting. I don’t think we have another court reporter in that neighborhood that I can think of, but I just—I got to do things that I never thought I’d be able to do. And I wish I could do them all over again, too.
FA: Sam?
SM: This is a one day story on—
FA: Yeah.
SM: —what happened in Greenbush? Well, from Longfellow School, Central High School, we had to walk from Murray Street to Central. One of my very good friends was Albert Smith, and we used to—get to there until I—my grandmother decided I should have a car. I got the—I don’t want to go into the details of the car business. And we used to get to Central—bunch of us—walking, and my cousin Suzy Pikus always wanted to know why she could not ride in the car with us. I don’t know the answer to that. Maybe it was the language we used or what (laughs). I don’t know, but she never did ride in the car with us. And she complained about it!
FA: Boy, times sure do change. Tony?
TB: My grandfather had a little garden in the backyard, probably as big as this area here—from the treat case to the tables here. He would grow tomatoes, cucumbers, and vegetables that would [be] put up for the winter so he had something to eat in the winter. But that wasn’t enough for him, so he went around to everybody in the neighborhood that had a spare lot next to their house and made a deal with them that, if they let him grow vegetables on that little lot, he’d split whatever he grew with the owner of that house.
When we moved down to Orchard Street, he tried to do that, and that was kind of a strange thing for that neighborhood. People just didn’t do that. But sooner or later, he talked them into it. After he got the first couple and they got some of his tomatoes, then the resistance went right down. (laughter) Everyone wanted their front yard, or their backyard, or their side yard in a garden where my grandfather could grow vegetables.
FA: These guys, they tell you the story about the—you know, the (unintelligible) tomato season when they were ready, they always carry the salt shaker in their pocket. (laughter) To do taste tests of the tomatoes in the neighborhood.
TB: And apple season. Apple season.
JC: What’s the question?
FA: (unintelligible)—that seem ordinary in the moment, but become extraordinary as time passes and things change.
JC: Me? Is this a test? (laughter) Well, first off, we never knew we were poor. We never knew we were poor. We didn’t know that we are/were of color, or different color. We never locked our houses. In fact, I did not find the key to our house until the bulldozer was in the backyard, and the house started shaking, and the key fell off the ledge. It was a skeleton key. You [could’ve] opened up any door in the Bush.
Talk about things—starting on one end of our block was the Briskelady?? club, next door to that was the Neighborhood House daycare center, which was run by Mrs—
NB: Griggs.
JC: —and Ms. Braxton, which later was staffed by a Polish family, the Zmudzinskis. Next to that was the Carvellos, Laternos, us, Calivas, Caruso, Onheibers, Skedara, Mrs. Molesly, the weather lady, the Jewish synagogue across the street, Baptist church, black Baptist church, the Johnsons, Mr. Applebaum the hermit, Steves’ Butcher Shop, Trenal’s fine tomato garden, and the Vitalis, that owned the liquor—
FA: What extraordinary qualities did all of that area show you?
JC: That we were diversified.
FA: OK. Thanks, John.
JC: We didn’t know—we didn’t have any boundaries; racial boundaries, color boundaries. Ilana would make pasta on Saturday, feed half the Bush. Mrs. Smith, the black lady, made the best frying pan corn bread in the world with sorghum. We’d all go over there. Mrs. Onheiber would make some Jewish (unintelligible) something. That’s (unintelligible) diversification. That was good quality.
FA: Don’t you wish the full circle that—could come back today? Nick?
NB: I think the, the best part of the Bush was that everybody knew everybody, so you couldn’t go anyplace without knowing anybody. You knew everybody in the Bush. You got a lot of respect, they’d teach you respect. I never heard my father ever call his friends by just their last name. He called them Mr. Joe, Mr. Smith, Mr—I think, what I take from [that] is that they had a lot of respect for everybody. And that’s what I take away from it.
FA: Thank you. Next, oh, this one should be good.
TB: Frank. Frank. Frank. Simon, [Sam] Moss’ uncle, who we talked about, was asked one time about how it was to live in the Greenbush, and he said, “Well, we were all in the same boat. We got along because we were all in the same boat, and the name of the boat was poverty.” Best description I’ve ever heard.
FA: Let’s see. Share a story about the Greenbush community traditions and if they are still observed by the community today or your family.
NB: What was it again?
FA: Traditions from when you were growing up to today. Are they still being used, like, in your family, or here at the club, or in general? An example would be like at Christmas, we always had big pasta dinners.
NB: Yeah. Yeah. I think every Sunday was our thing. We had spaghetti and meatballs every Sunday, and my father was a great cook. He would cook all of our Saturday and Sunday meals and all of our holiday meals and my mom would cook in between. She was good at making pasta sauces and stuff, but my father would make this—get up early in the morning on Sunday and he’d make the sauce with the meatballs and sausage and some pambergeloni?? or whatever.
My mother would put—when we sat down we—and we ate at 12 o’clock right on the dot. Now, if you wanted to have somebody over for dinner, you could invite anybody you want for dinner, they had to be there at 12 o’clock sharp. We’d go and we’d invite somebody, and 12 o’clock comes and I said “Pa, you know, maybe they’re just getting out of church, maybe they’ll be here in about 10 minutes.” He said, “What time you tell them to be here?” “12 o’clock.” He says, “What time is it?” “12 o’clock.” He said, "12 o’clock? Mangia.”
So my ma—my dad wore a white shirt only once, and that was on Sundays. So my mother would put—what, not a dishrag, what do you call [them]?
FA: Apron.
JC: Yeah, a dishrag. The white one.
NB: Yeah! A dishrag. Put two of them around his shirt so he wouldn’t get any sauce on his shirt, right? My dad would—he put a nickel by his plate, and whoever ate their pasta first would get the nickel. He never lost, never. So anyway, my—
FA: He never lost.
NB: —after we get through eating, he’d take that thing off like this [action]—had spots on it. My mother yelled at him for 52 Sundays every year. My father would go [action]. And that was that. (laughter)
FA: Done? (laughter) I can relate one, and I’m from out east, okay. But back in the fifties, forties, Catholics—we couldn’t eat meat on Friday. And how many times did we have pasta with olive oil and garlic?
JC: Oh yeah. Yeah. Like I said. Sunday, Sunday was pasta day.
NB: Everybody ate pasta.
TB: It was pasta day.
JC: To go further, Christmastime. Nana Caruso would make cuciadatis, the hardest Italian cookie to make. I mean, it was complicated. From soaking the figs, the raisins, the fruit—the candied fruit—with a hand grinder. You clamped it on the table.
(speaking at the same time)
She knew to the cookie how many she made. She would lay them out in the spare bedroom on the bed with the white sheet. You trying to be sneaky, you’d fudge one in the middle, right? (laughter) Move the column over? Did not work. Did not work. (laughter) Grandma had a broom with about a 20 foot handle on it (laughter) because she never missed! Never missed! But boy, they were the best—it was worth it! (laughter)
FA: It was worth the punishment?
JC: It was worth the punishment, man! It was worth the punishment!
FA: You were a lot of trouble when you were growing up.
JC: Yes I was!
FA: Katie?
KSW: They had a lot of—their traditions were connected with holidays. There was one Mardi Gras one they did—I think—I have—I don’t even know, did we have Mardi Gras? But they had—where they would come in—they had—they would go over to each other’s homes or here at the club house, and they would sit around—they would have the chairs in the big circle, and somebody would go around trying to make that person laugh. And he would go through everything, and once they laughed, he would—the game was called moshkada??, and they—he would mark their face with coal. And by the time they finished, they were just all a riot in black. (laughs)
Their Christmas parties were another tradition here for the children. And I re—Sam—John Raymond was Santa Claus. We sat there and waited for this Santa to come for [an] hour, singing songs, and he would come in—was a couple of years before I found out who he was—but they gave you a bag of candy, and some—maybe an apple or something, and we sang songs for quite a while until this Santa came.
They were always with hol—the holiday ones were the best that I can remember. But they danced a lot. They would come in here, and they would dance up there. We didn’t have babysitters then, so I got—they dragged us along. And right back here, there was a pool table, and we played around there. When it got late, we were tired, they’d put us on the pool table to sleep. (laughter) And they would have their party. Mr. Salerno would play the accordion, and Mr. Joe Stassi, who was the—did all the taps for all the military things. There were about seven of them. Only two could read music, Mr. Salerno and Mr. Joe Stassi, who was a, had a shoe stop on Main Street about five blocks this side of the Capitol Square.
He [Stassi] played, of course he did that for years and years, but they were the only two that could, but the others tried, I mean they—I thought they were good, you know, I say. I got to sing “O Sole Mio”, you got to learn all the Italian songs, and they danced a lot, and just had such a good time.
FA: Sam?
SM: A story about a holiday festival? Is that it? No.
FA: Well, a community tradition.
SM: Okay. For Halloween, one of my mother’s very good friends was Georgia Cerniglia. We’d always go over to—she would take me over to the Cerniglia’s house before Halloween. Skinny Pete and Buffo (laughs)—they all had nicknames because it was two different families with the same first names, you know, would—first of all, we would get our pumpkins from—my favorite grocery store was the White Front Grocery. We always get, we would get our pumpkin there. That was my very most favorite grocery store.
Anyway, we would go over to the—Georgia’s house, and many times when we went over there, Buffo and Skinny Pete were— (laughs) they didn’t have a bathroom upstairs, so they had a kind of a tub, you know, in (laughs) the area there that they would be bathing in while we were there. (laughs) Nobody really looked at them and that; they were young, they were kids, you know, and so forth.
FA: Remember. This is being recorded!
(laughter)
SM: Anyway, there was a bathroom downstairs on the next floor, or something, I never was down there, so I didn’t know, but Buffo always used to tell me that (laughs) they were in there taking a bath while we were talking, in the—right in the same room, but not where they were, you know?
Anyway, we would go around to the neighborhood there, and in those days, we didn’t say “trick or treat.” It was “soap or grub.”
TB: Soap or grub.
SM: Soap or grub. We had a bar of soap, you know, and we would mark the windows, or whatever if we didn’t get—I don’t remember ever doing that myself.
JC: (throat clearing) Oh, excuse me.
SM: Since I’m on camera, I won’t say I did.
(laughter)
TB: Statute of limitations.
FA: Statute of limitations might be over. We’ll check. Tony?
(laughter)
SM: I’ve consulted a lawyer on all this, you know? Anyway, we used to have a great time going around to the neighbors and get treats and so forth.
FA: Tony?
TB: One of the lasting traditions, you’re sitting in right now. This building. This was the cultural center of the neighborhood. Everything happened here—dances. Up until a few years ago, where the bar is now was a stage. And so, there were stage presentations. Funerals were held here, weddings, wedding receptions. The men used to be able to come in here—everybody that was a member had a key, and the only way you could get in the door was with a key. If you didn’t have a key, you didn’t get in. They would come in and play cards, and they would lock the door. And so, the mothers, their wives, would send the kids over to get the father, and have to bang on the door outside until somebody came. (laughs) There wasn’t a phone in here until the 1950’s. They didn’t even have a phone. That’s how—they had—this was their inner sanctum. This was a place where they were able to play cards and be themselves.
This place has now spawned a lot of other activities that you’re probably familiar with. Festa Italia, we have a golf outing, we have a presentation at the international day, we’re involved in the community, in events like this—talking about the old neighborhood, and a lot of fundraising things.
One of the traditions of the neighborhood—this is one of the last buildings in the neighborhood. This building, Di Salvo’s old grocery, which is now Buckingham’s. Two houses, one next to Fraboni’s and one on the other side of that parking lot are the last buildings left from the old Greenbush. So, this is a tradition that’s still here.
SM: The story I want to tell about somebody who’s been a good friend of mine. We were both at Longfellow Grade School—fella’s name is Tony Fiori. Who—he and I got in a rumble on the hospital—Madison General Hospital hill there. It didn’t last long, and there was no winner or loser, (laughs) but we remained good friends. He became a football and basketball coach. He doesn’t live in the city anymore, but I see him on occasion. And so we made good friends.
FA: Did you roll down the hill together?
(laughter)
SM: Yes. Pretty much!
JC: That was a long hill, man! Remember?
FA: Katie?
KSW: I’m not sure I— (unintelligible) the subject—when this building was planned, they—it was done by—all labor was done by the members of the club. But John Icke, who was a city engineer at that time, took an interest in these men. He hired them every year because they were so loyal and so good, and when they went to build the building, he provided all the equipment they needed—trucks—they—whatever they needed. The only thing that they didn’t do was they had to put the frame or something in. That had to be done professionally. But otherwise, the men did that all by themselves. I remember the outside was—they had—cement sidewalk, stairs going up. The street was very narrow at that time, so it went out for—you came in right about here, at the top of the stairs—yeah, came in here.
It's amazing how these men, who had never done it before, but they were so—I know my father worked for him for a long time—and they were so loyal that he would hire only these Italian men. And that he—and I know who—I know the John Icke family, but they were very loyal to this club. That’s it.
FA: I can tell you from working to maintain this, they built it pretty solid, too. This building was built in 1921, and the major addition in the mid-thirties, and that would be the front as you’re coming in the steps—or coming off the sidewalk, not the steps—indoor plumbing. Other than that, it was out to the back!
TB: The bacouz!
(laughter)
FA: The bacouz. Sam, like you—if you would, if you wanted to—about changing the name.
SM: Yeah.
FA: Why you, you know, changing the name, what the benefits of—
SM: Well, I think a lot of Italian families as well changed their name to shorten it. But the male members of our family all changed it to Moss. I didn’t have any choice in the matter, and I would not have done it because, as I said, my—I was named after my grandfather—it was Samuel Moskowski, not Moss. His name was never Moss. That’s as best I can explain that.
FA: What’s also, Sam, you know, relate to it a little bit. Back when they had the bakery, people wouldn’t buy from a bakery with a Jewish name. So they basically shortened it to Moss.
SM: No, the bakery was the Milwaukee Bakery.
FA: Milwaukee Bakery they made it, yeah. So, back in those days, it was interesting.
audio jumps
FA: As Halloween approaches, are there any Greenbush ghost stories (laughter) or odd or spooky urban legends? Nick?
NB: I don’t know of any.
TB: We were spooky enough.
FA: OK, Yeah. (laughs)
JC: Yeah! The yard next to Reverend Peroni’s church was the graveyard for the—oh god darn it—he had the Italian Methodist Church. Reverend Peroni!
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Are you looking at me?
JC: No, no, no!
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: I went to St. Joseph’s!
JC: I know you were! Yeah. I think there was ghosts in his side yard. Because we were not allowed to go trick or treating to their house. Because Reverend Peroni would not come to the door.
NB: Really?
JC: Yeah. I think that was ours. Other than that—oh, and were weren’t allowed to go past the boundaries of the Bush, you know. But, other than that. Maybe there were some in Gehrke’s Junkyard, I don’t know.
(laughter)
FA: Katie?
KSW: I never went trick or treating.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Someone had to stay and hand out the candy, huh?
KSW: I know! I never went. I don’t—the boys went, I think, but I was not allowed to go out to go trick or treating, so I never knew what it was about. I never got all that candy. I never got any of that. Very deprived.
FA: Sam?
TB: My grandfather threatened to make me a ghost a couple times, but I never saw any.
SM: I don’t—
FA: Okay.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: Wait!
FA: Yeah.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: For those of you who are first generation, your parents (unintelligible) were always born in Sicily, correct?
JC: No. My parents [were] born here. My grandparents [were] born in Sicily.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: Your grandparents—
JC: My parents, here.
FA: Okay.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: Do you remember (unintelligible) how they connected the celebration November 2nd—the feast of— (unintelligible)
FA: Do you have any special, you know, festivities around Halloween?
(cross-conversation)
NB: I don’t remember any—
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: Did they tell anything about how—
NB: Yes, I under—yeah, I know what it is—
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: November 2nd was celebrated in Sicily, where the children receive presents from their dead relatives that were surprise—
(speaking at the same time)
NB: I don’t recall; maybe I’m too old to remember.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: Pardon?
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: All Saint’s Day and Halloween.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: November 2nd in Sicily. They probably, you know—the first generation, but also were born here, and their parents were (unintelligible) Sicilian. And that’s when, in Sicily, you received—when children expect presents—their home—their dead relatives, especially grandparents, uncles, et cetera. Better if you have a grandparent, the more present given (unintelligible) of course, so—
FA: Interesting.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 1: They really—it was almost like Halloween. It is like Halloween because the night of all saints, they were all expecting—
FA: Now, see, American kids, we get all candy. Much easier.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Oh! I just looked it up on Google. November 2nd is the day of the dead. Also celebrated on November 2nd. All Soul’s Day—considered the day of the dead.
FA: Well, you go down to New Orleans, it’s still celebrated that way. Okay. Moving right along—
(laughter)
If we don’t move along, we might be here at Christmas. Who knows? Okay. This is the question that I know is in everybody’s mind. Describe some of the businesses, cultural landmarks, and/or physical attributes that were lost to the development in the 60s.
JC: Jewish clothing store, Italian meat market, Jewish meat market—
FA: Church.
JC: Jewish grocery store, black church, Italian Methodist church, Catholic Church, the Key Club, Schwartz’s Pharmacy, Gehrke’s Junkyard, Paley’s Junkyard, Heifetz—anything else?
TB: Sinaiko’s.
SM: The Neighborhood House.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Buccio’s Tavern. Buccio’s Tavern on West Wash—
(speaking at the same time)
JC: The Neighborhood House, Buccio’s Tavern, Di Salvo’s, Three Sisters.
FA: Okay. Those are all businesses. What about homes? Neighborhoods.
(cross-conversation)
JC: They’re all gone. Mound Street is gone. Milton’s gone.
FA: For those of you who don’t know, this is the map that Tony Guastella did of the Bush from the early 60s, late 50s. All the places these guys are talking about you’ll find in this area here. For example, we are up here now, at the Workman’s Club, okay? This is the area—what is it, South Park? Right in through here– the Triangle, it was called, that was taken down in urban renewal, late 50s, early 60s.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: My dad’s paint store, that he built. Clinton Paint Store got moved down Regent Street when they redeveloped it. Yup.
FA: So, anything— any other comments about that development from anybody? Or redevelopment?
JC: It’s gone.
KSW: The Clubhouse wasn’t included in that because they were on the other side of the street there.
FA: Who wasn’t?
KSW: This Clubhouse.
FA: Right. We were on the wrong side of the street. Yeah, fortunately.
KSW: But this club was going to be, at one time was gonna be rebuilt. And it would’ve been on the lot where St. Joseph’s Church is on the Beltline. That’s where their plans were headed.
JC: Caliva’s Tire and Battery Shop.
NB: Initially this Clubhouse.
TB: If the question is, what [of] those do we miss, we miss [them] all.
FA: Why?
SM: Brittingham Park.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: It’s still there!
SM: It’s still there, but it’s not like it was.
KSW: It’s not a city park like we had.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 3: Losing your identity. The whole Italian identity.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 4: No sense of family. The whole area was family.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Even Southshore Beach, where a lot of Italians were on the south side. West Lakeside.
FA: I think one of the things you been hearing about, you know, here in this whole presentation, has been family, neighborhood, you know, everybody’s close, knowing each other. And obviously, when you come in and tear it down, you know, you lose that. I came here in ‘61, and talking to these guys and stuff, you know, you’re never going to regain it, unfortunately. You know, they did things back there during that redevelopment—there is no way you could even think of doing that today. You imagine trying to tear down churches and synagogues and schools for housing? Not in Madison!
TB: Try tearing down Williamson Street. See how far you get. (laughs)
FA: Yeah! So, okay. Now we’re going to—yeah, Mark?
MARK: Could I just probe this slightly there—do you remember the strong expression of emotion from back at that time—with renewal—of somebody who was really angry, or somebody who was really sad? Is there a day that you’re just remembering moving out of your house, and finding—yeah? Tell us about it. What was the anger?
JC: Angry? Angry? Huh? First off, the city raped them with no concern of where they were gonna go. I would say that 75% of the elders died of a broken heart. They lost all of their compades, they lost all their friends. They didn’t know where to go shopping because everything was in walking distance. Get a plate of pasta, clothes, communion, all in the [neighborhood]. Wedding receptions here, get married across the street, have a reception here. They put [them] out—psssh. That’s it. We’re renewing you guys, that’s it!
My grandmother was one of the last houses to get tore down on Mound Street. She was sitting on the porch, front porch—her black dress on that they wore because she lost her husband. She had a rosary. We had to convince the guy with the bulldozer to work from the backyard up. When her front door of her house hit the porch, she knew it was over.
Tell me they weren’t mad? Psssh. How—no, really! How would you guys feel? Today. They say, okay, we’re taking your house. Here’s a check for nothing. Goodbye.
NB: The biggest thing is, most of these people—because—
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: My grandmother had—she lived on Milton Street, and had to move into the low income housing, remember—what was that called?
JC: Bayview.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Bayview. They did move a number of the elderlies, mostly widowed ladies, into that project over there, my grandmother—
JC: Ours went on—my grandmother went on—the one on Lakeside Street.
FA: Okay, just a minute—ready?
AUDIENCE MEMBER 5: Did they get to keep all their stuff?
TB: Yes.
JC: Yes.
FA: Did they get to keep all their stuff?
NB: The biggest problem was that, in our neighborhood, everybody spoke Italian. I mean, our parents and everybody spoke Italian. So when they move these people out, they’re in their 70s and 80s, all they spoke is Italian. They went into a neighborhood where they didn’t know their neighbors—who never spoke the word. The only way they could [communicate] was by telephone. That was a really big problem for them. And they—a couple of them—of the ladies almost had a nervous breakdown because they were all by themselves.
FA: Sam. Question. We’ve heard about the Italian community. How about the Jewish community? How did they—
SM: Well, what happened was, there were two orthodox synagogues: one across the street from our bakery on Murray Street, Adas Jeshurun, and the original one. That was built in 1938, and then the original shul was on the corner of—the southeast corner of Park and Mound Street. And that was Adas Jeshurun, and that’s where I went to Hebrew school, and so forth. That moved out to Randall Street, where it is now—to Randall and Mound. That’s Beth Israel Center now. It’s no longer Orthodox, it’s conservative now.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Oh, it’s conservative now? My mother catered there. I mean was—Jewish. (laughs) My mother came from the Italian (unintelligible) to become a Jewish caterer in Madison.
FA: How about the Jewish families?
SM: Well, they dispersed. They dispersed. The kids that I knew went to Central High School, and Central was downgrade. My family moved out in 1957. My mother and I went out to California, where I got my bachelor’s degree. The rest of them moved west, on the west side of Madison. The ones that were left—of my family that was left in Madison.
KSW: Saul (unintelligible) is still there, though.
SM: Oh yeah, I see him regularly.
FA: Okay, now we’re going to open it up to questions and answers. Dave has the microphone; please use that. Phyllis?
PHYLLIS: Approximately how many residents were there in the Bush? How many people lived there?
FA: Anybody know a number? Roughly?
NB: I have no idea.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: If Buffo was here, he’d know it.
TB: Several hundred.
FA: I’d say several hundred to a thousand.
SM: All families.
FA: It also depends on what you’d call the Bush. If everybody lived in the Bush that said they lived in the Bush, you know, it’d be 10,000 people.
TB: We’d be in Milwaukee.
FA: But 700 to a thousand is what I’ve heard from these guys. Mark?
MARK: So, when you said the city raped the Greenbush, are you referring to what they—
JC: Money!
MARK: That they didn’t—give enough money for the property?
NB: Eminent domain.
(unintelligible)
JC: Money! Yeah, if that.
MARK: So, do you remember, any of the houses were, your own experience, or your family, of knowing what the property was worth and then knowing how they—
JC: Well, the city said my grandmother’s house was worth $3875. Was a two-flat, with a four-stall garage, a garden, porch, upper and lower. Three bedrooms. You know. She got a check for about four grand or something like that. This is in 1964.
FA: Supposedly, in the State Historical Society records and stuff like that, the person who was in charge of the Redevelopment Authority, he bought a lot of the houses like this and sold them back to the city, so there was that type of stuff. Also, these guys have told stories about—if you could speak English, you got a certain amount. If you couldn’t speak English, you got a lower amount. So—
JC: And they had no guidance, they had no legal—
TB: Nowhere.
JC: They were elderly. And by that time my mother and father, they had already moved out, and they ended up by Vilas Park by Cerniglias and Parisi, (unintelligible) so the little Italian community like that—they didn’t know. All of sudden, here’s your check, Mrs. Caruso. Per se. She didn’t know. Her husband had passed. It’s condemned. If you didn’t [take the money] they were going to condemn it, let’s put it this way, they’d find something wrong with it.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: I remember standing on Park Street with my father, who never cried. And he cried over what was happening. And he talked a lot to me about what this meant, to lose the Bush, that he grew up in. And the stories he’d tell me, I would be jealous that I hadn’t been old enough to experience making the paste on the boards out there, all the responsibilities everybody had—
TB: Crushing the grapes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Making the sauce, and all of these things, and no locking of the doors. And my father, he explained how, no matter what, you were safe. And no matter what you could turn to anybody, anybody in the Bush, and they would help you. Anybody. And so I never understood. I kept asking my dad, because I was young, I was less than ten when this happened. And the City would say, oh, it’s just a slum, and the houses and this and that. I would have loved them to have gone in my grandmother’s house.
JC: Yes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: You could eat off the floor. It was beautiful.
JC: Yes.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: We had many relatives, the sons who had families that transitioned through the apartment. It was a fabulous house. It was all about what [the City] wanted to do, and they did it. That’s exactly what my father called it—they raped them. Pennies on the dollar. They considered us nothing but garbage.
JC: That’s right.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: And it’s a disgrace.
JC: They didn’t realize that we built the Bush on garbage.
(laughs)
FA: Bobby?
BOBBY: You know when you talk about what they would pay, my uncle Vito Scurio, they offered him (unintelligible) for his house. He turned it down, so they condemned his house, and gave him the lowest price they could give him. Then they turned around, they sold it to Vince Corona, and moved it over on Mills Street. So the house was condemned, but they sold it.
JC: Yes.
SM: And they moved it. Yeah.
FA: Okay. Anything else? Mark?
MARK: I can remember my father George and I were walking one day, and he and the other Italian kids would play Tarzan. Tarzan was really popular in those Saturday matinees at the time. And right over by the Park Street viaduct was a house that had two of those trees that grow the big long seed pods. He and the other boys used to pull those down and say they were bananas, and this old Italian lady would come out on her porch and go, “You boys leave that tree alone, you’re gonna kill that tree!” And one day my dad and I were walking along, he said, “Look at that. The whole neighborhood’s gone. All the houses are gone." Businesses—the old Italian lady’s and those trees are still there. And they were up—until they did the bike path and they finally took those out.
FA: Interesting. To leave this on a high note, I have a question for the panel members. And I’ll give them a couple of minutes to think about this. I know what [John’s] answer is going to be. Where did you go on a date?
(laughter)
JC: Where did you go on a date?
FA: OK, don’t tell a story about you getting stuck in a car!
NB: With whom?
JC: No, I’m not going to—No, no, no.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Is this—they’re teenagers?
FA: As a teenager.
JC: Well, the Loft was the meeting—
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: The Loft! On Doty Street?
JC: The Loft, or the Neighborhood House. If you were lucky enough to convince the parents of an Italian girl—
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Good luck with that.
(laughter)
JC: If you were good enough to take her out. And she will be home by 9 o’clock.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: God, I wish I could do that still today.
FA: Nick?
NB: I’m just trying to think of—
JC: Or a movie.
NB: Yeah.
AUDIENCE MEMBER: My mother used to take us down to the Majestic Theater, and the downtown Orpheum. The movies were like twenty-five cents. Saturday morning, they had Flash Gordon, Hopalong Cassidy, Roy Rogers. A lot of people in those days, because I grew up right next to Jimmy’s Spaghetti House, that my parents started. I grew up there, and I was there. I’d get done with school, and she’d pick me up at school, bring me to the restaurant, and I used to work at the restaurant. (speaking at same time) A lot of people used to come to that restaurant, I mean, for dates. A lot of young people. That was the—excuse me, I’m biased, but that was the restaurant on Regent and Park there. Jimmy’s Spaghetti House. They came from all over, the pictures that my mother had—I can’t find them—Anheuser Busch, you know. Liberace came there, Bob Hope, [Bing] Crosby.
FA: Tony? Where’d you take Mary on a date?
TB: I didn't know Mary then. She was still up in Lodi then.
FA: Okay.
KSW: We mostly went to the dances at Blessed Sacrament, the Loft. There were a couple other places, but we went there, but we were all together—my cousin John, I don’t know if you remember my cousin John Cuccia, he was my (unintelligible), and he was always right there so I couldn’t do anything wrong. And nobody else around me could. But we went to those dances every Saturday night. No, it was Friday night—Friday night.
FA: Friday night dances.
JC: Yep.
KSW: Yep.
TB: Well, we never had any money, so you, we would go down to Vilas Park, go to the zoo. Go to Brittingham. Go swimming. Things that didn’t cost any money, because we didn’t have any money.
FA: Well, you’ve told—I’ve heard you [Tony] talk about it—asking a young lady out and going to her house to pick her up—
TB: (laughs) Oh, I was there with some friends of mine, and we went to this girl’s house, and the father asked me what my name was. And I told him, and he said, “Is that Italian?” I said “Yes.” He said, “Get out.”
(laughter)
TB: That was in Nakoma.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: In Nakoma, oh, of course. WASP-y.
FA: Sam? You have any trouble with women?
SM: (laughs) Ah—
FA: Statute of limitations are up on that, too.
SM: I remember, my first official date was when I was in high school. And my good friend Harvey Baruch, orthopedic surgeon, retired now, he and I and our dates went to Lombardino's.
AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: Lombardino's. Yep.
KSW: Oh, yeah.
SM: But we went to the Loft, at other times, and so forth.
sound fades
[END RECORDING]
[START OF RECORDING]
Marisol González: When I heard the news of the coronavirus, I thought it might be related to the Corona Mexican beer, to be honest, since a couple years ago there were videos and information floating around about the contamination of the 7 Up soda pop that was killing people.
Anyway, when I paid attention and understand what was really going on, my first thought was, “What a great opportunity!” and I made up a list of all of the things I wanted to do this quarantine. For example: read, write, watch the movies that I always wanted to watch, take naps, cook new recipes, take baths with a glass of wine, do Zumba, yoga, meditation, paint, crafts, learn how to sew on the sewing machine, and many more ideas. I was very excited to start this quarantine.
But I forgot one very important detail: the whole family will be in quarantine, too. That means goodbye to my list of things and expectations, because the kids will demand my attention twenty-four hours a day. Plus, the explosions of emails from teachers, principals, school districts, coworkers, clients, friends, and the latest news. That was too much. Everywhere I looked, there was something about the coronavirus. I felt so much anxiety and pain in my neck.
But I tried to be positive, and I got a new idea. This was something I wished to do for a long time: My big opportunity to homeschool my kids! So I made a list of the expectations of what our homeschooling would look like. Although the reality was very different than what I expected. The first day, the cable of my laptop was lost. So the kids fought to share my husband’s laptop. I put my house upside down to find the stupid cable, and after half of the day looking, I did find it. But the laptop wasn’t working. The kids did very little schoolwork that day. The second day, my son’s Google classroom wasn’t working, and I spent half of the day sending emails to his teacher. So we ended up just reading some books.
The following day, it seems like all of the technology was working for my kids, but definitely, this wasn’t the kind of homeschooling I was expecting. Looking at my kids immersed in the screens doing schoolwork makes me sick. Right when my daughter started calling me “Maestra Marisol,” I said, “Forget about this way of homeschooling! And let’s do it my way. And please, just call me Mom.” So we start our math class by making empanadas. After that, let’s learn science and nature. We went outside on our bikes while it was raining, and splashed in some puddles. Then social studies! Geography and history! Let’s do a tea party with all of the stuffed animals, and talk about kings and queens, castles and royalty. Where do they live? How do they get their wealth? It was fair? What about gym class? Well, we went for walks, and my daughter figured out how to use a metal bar from the shower to hang like a monkey. I feel very proud and tired.
Thank goodness this week is spring break. And since the Mexican Corona beer has nothing to do with the coronavirus, I’m planning to enjoy some of them with lime and salt.
[END OF RECORDING]
Identificante: madmex-001
Narrador: Geovani González
Nombre Entrevistante: Claudia González
Fecha de la Entrevista: 2022-12-07
INDICE
[00:00:00] INTRODUCCION
[00:01:35] RETOS DE VENIR A VIVIR A MADISON
[00:03:10] EL CAMINO A SER LOCUTOR DE UN PROGRAMA DE ROCK
[00:12:10] CAMBIOS EN LOS 19 AÑOS DEL PROGRAMA
[00:16:20] FALTA DE RECONOCIMIENTO LOCAL, RECONOCIMIENTO REGIONAL EN INTERNACIONAL
[00:21:00] HACIENDO EL PROGRAMA COMO VOLUNTARIO
[00:25:30] NUEVAS PLATAFORMAS Y FUTURO DEL PROGRAMA
[00:29:15] SER UN EMPRENDEDOR EN LA MÚSICA ALTERNATIVA
[00:32:25] IMPORTANCIA DE LOS ESPACIOS LOCALES
[00:34:35] CONTACTOS PARA LAS REDES SOCIALES
[00:36:20] PERSONAS QUE ESCUCHAN EL PROGRAMA DESDE LA CARCEL
[00:00:00] INTRODUCCION
Entrevistante: Hola, mi nombre es Claudia. El día de hoy es diciembre 7 del 2022 y estoy aquí con Geovani González, locutor del show de Radio Rock en español. Lo estamos entrevistando para el proyecto de la “Historia Viva” para la biblioteca en… para el Madison Public Library. ¿Quieres introducirte?
Geovani Gonzalez: Hola, buenos días. Mi nombre es Geovani González, tengo 40 años, soy mexicano, originario de la Ciudad de México y tengo viviendo en la ciudad de Madison aproximadamente 20 años.
Entrevistante: ¿Quieres decirnos cómo tu historia se conecta con nuestro proyecto?
Geovani Gonzalez: Bueno, yo soy una persona que de cierta forma, he creado un espacio o estoy trabajando todavía para crear un espacio. En este caso, musicalmente hablando, de música alternativa en la ciudad de Madison. Creo que este proyecto que se está realizando con la librería pública y que está enfocado en de cierta forma, reconocer el trabajo de algunos latinos en la comunidad que hemos trabajado fuerte para hacer, quizás, de cierta forma, una diferencia en nuestra comunidad.
[00:01:35] RETOS DE VENIR A VIVIR A MADISON
Entrevistante: ¿Cuáles han sido algunos de los retos que has tenido que pasar?
Geovani Gonzalez: Bueno. Yo cuando llegué aquí a la ciudad de Madison, Wisconsin, hace aproximadamente 20 años; yo vengo de una ciudad, como lo había mencionado, una ciudad cosmopolita, una ciudad enorme, una ciudad grande, una de las ciudades más grandes a nivel mundial que es la Ciudad de México, y venía acostumbrado a tener quizás diferentes enfoques, pero tener todo a la mano. Desde poder salir a cualquier hora hasta poder comer y escuchar. Lo que yo quisiera. Cuando llego a esta ciudad, me encuentro con una ciudad más pequeña, quizás más acogedora. En ese sentido, pero que, pues, evidentemente, carecía de ciertas cosas y para un individuo que viene de una ciudad que prácticamente no duerme a una ciudad que tiene otras tradiciones y otras formas de ver la vida, el mismo ritmo que se vive aquí en la ciudad de Madison, pues no es el mismo ritmo que se vive en una ciudad como la Ciudad de México. Y creo que, uno de los primeros retos fue ese. El poder acostumbrarte a, a tener que llegar de una ciudad tan enorme, tan grande a una ciudad tan pequeña y que, a lo mejor sí, como lo digo, muy acogedora, pero, pues que de cierta forma tenía sus carencias o que no encontraba totalmente mis necesidades.
[00:03:10] EL CAMINO A SER LOCUTOR DE UN PROGRAMA DE ROCK
Entrevistante: ¿Nos podrías contar cómo llegaste a ser el locutor del show de rock en español?
Geovani Gonzalez: Bueno, yo, me entero del show de radio de rock en español. Hay que mencionarlo. Yo no soy como el exactamente el pionero del show de radio. Ahora mismo sí soy el encargado total del show de radio, pero yo llego al show de radio cuando el show de radio ya tenía tres meses de vida. Había un colectivo de compañeros de aproximadamente entre ocho, nueve personas que se habían reunido para, crear un espacio de la música alternativa. Obviamente esto basado en el hecho de la, de lo que hablábamos de la necesidad de tener algo diferente en la comunidad. Y bueno, en su pensamiento fue el de “si no lo tienes, pues créalo”, y ellos fueron los primeros. Este, este colectivo, este grupo de personas de diferentes nacionalidades, no solamente mexicanos, había españoles, había chilenos, había argentinos, había colombianos y por supuesto había una base de mexicanos. Yo me entero a través de un amigo de la familia que evidentemente se daba cuenta del hecho de mi necesidad. De mi necesidad en cuanto a la música, el poder tener algo que no encontraba yo aquí en la ciudad. Hay que decirlo, que de cierta forma, cuando yo llego a la ciudad, yo era como que muy cuadrado y eran muy mis gustos y no era como que muy el adaptarme a otros, a otros gustos musicales, Entonces, a través de esto esta persona me habla y me dice: “¿sabes qué?” “hay un show de radio en una estación de radio, este, no sé, deberías escucharla. Dicen que tocan, este, música alternativa en español, rock, y, no estaría de más.” Entonces yo un día cualquiera, después de regresar del trabajo, era miércoles y me acuerdo que me habían dicho de esta estación de radio. Busco en la estación, en el radio y escucho. Y bueno, para mi sorpresa, evidentemente fue que empecé a escuchar música que hacía mucho que no escuchaba y mucho menos en la radio. Y me conecto evidentemente muy rápido con la música y con los locutores que, en ese entonces estaban. Se me ocurre llamar a la estación de radio para pedir algunas canciones Y bueno, quizás para mi sorpresa es que las personas que me contestan en ese momento pues me dejan saber que, que sí tenían el estilo de música, pero que no tenían exactamente las canciones que yo estaba pidiendo.
Para fortuna o suerte, no lo sé, en esos días un amigo de México me había mandado un paquete con, discos que yo había dejado en México y entre ellos, pues, evidentemente venían algunos discos que él me habían mandado nuevos en ese entonces que recién habían salido en México, de ska, de reggae. Y bueno, pues yo decido a los voluntarios en ese entonces de la estación de radio ofrecerles mi, mis discos. El decirles que, si los ocupaban, los necesitaban, pues, era cuestión de, de ponernos de acuerdo y poder dejárselos, dárselos. Entonces, hablo con las personas, ellos, quedamos que la próxima semana me invitan a la estación de radio con la única finalidad de yo entregarles los discos. Ellos de cierta forma hacerles unas copias a los discos y quedárselos ya para su biblioteca o para su, para que ellos lo pudieran tocar dentro de los shows. Nunca hubo una intención de que yo me quedara en la estación de radio o que yo me quedara con el show de radio. Ya se llega el día, llegamos, yo llego a la estación de radio WORT, en donde desde ya casi 19 años, es donde ha estado el show de radio en la WORT. Y, llego, me presento en ese tiempo con el colectivo. Como les digo eran entre ocho o nueve personas y presento mis discos, ellos me invitan, dicen: “pues quédate hoy, esta noche para que veas cómo se hace un show.” Pues, yo les dejo los discos y, y me dicen: “vente la próxima semana para que recojas tus discos.” Okay, está bien. Pues a la próxima semana regreso a la estación de radio para recoger La finalidad, como lo digo desde el principio, simplemente fue más el aportar desde el sentido de música a que yo me quedara,. Entonces, ya regreso y, y en ese día pues me dicen que si quería quedarme a ayudarlos a contestar los teléfonos. El apoyar. El hecho es que creo que mucho de esta historia del show tal, no tanto como el mío, sino del show como, como tal, es el hecho de que muchos de los que hemos participado durante estos casi 19 años del show, pues siempre hemos tratado de encontrar como que las personas con los mismos gustos y cuando encuentras a una persona que tiene el mismo gusto contigo, como que lo quieres compartir. Y el show de radio creo que se ha convertido en eso, en una forma de compartir el gusto por la música alternativa, por el rock, por el ska, por el reggae. Así pues, pasaron algunos meses.
Yo estuve acudiendo más como un apoyo, como una ayuda para contestar, teléfonos. Y bueno, pues como todo, de repente cuando hay un ¿cómo se llama?, cuando hay un colectivo. Pues de repente hay personas que por X o Y razón se empiezan a salir del colectivo y se empieza a hacer más pequeño y entonces ya es cuando oficialmente el que estaba encargado se me ofrece el quedarme ya como parte del colectivo de rock en español. Y yo empecé como, pues, digamos, contestando teléfonos, pero después a la falta de más compañeros, pues me empezaron a subir, después a locución y ya hasta llegar al punto de ser ingeniero.De poder mover los controles y poder llevar como que el,. Había noches en las que me tocaba a mitad de show, en locución y mitad de show en controles y poder llevar el show, Desafortunadamente por X o Y razón, los compañeros empiezan a salirse del proyecto hasta llegar al punto en el que me quedo, yo con el show de radio. Y llega como que el punto de quiebre De este servidor y del show de radio en donde… Pues la verdad es que hay un momento en donde me siento como un poco presionado con el hecho de tener un proyecto tan. Pues, para nosotros que hemos participado en este proyecto, es un proyecto muy importante. El show de radio es algo como parte de nuestra vida. Siempre los que hemos participado hemos creído que las personas que van a ir ya sea un mes, hasta un año o menos, pues es tiempo. Y creemos que el tiempo es algo que nunca regresa y el poder entregar ese tiempo al show de radio es la responsabilidad que se queda a los que decidimos quedarnos. Y en ese momento pues me quedo solo. Entonces estuve a punto de entregar el show de radio. Yo creo que cuando teníamos como, no sé, cinco años tal vez, quizás menos, cuatro años que deciden salirse los demás compañeros y me quedo solo. Y bueno, de hecho, hablé con la estación de radio para pues evidentemente, pues darle las gracias porque yo la verdad no me sentía con la capacidad de poder tener solo un show. Para esto, no sé si sea azar, el destino, pero la estación de radio pues evidentemente no puedes, como salirte de un show, así como así. Me piden un mes de tiempo para encontrar a alguien que se quedara con el show, pero también la persona encargada de la estación de radio en ese entonces, del voluntariado, digamos, de los voluntariados. Pues, me dice: “vamos a buscar a alguien en un mes, pero ese mes que te sirva a ti para, pues, piénsalo. O sea, piénsalo si necesitas o no.” Y, bueno es así como ahí en ese punto es cuando yo me quedo total y absolutamente a cargo de todo lo que es el show de Radio Rock en español. Yo soy responsable total y absoluto del contenido de la música de pues literalmente del show de radio.
[00:12:10] CAMBIOS EN LOS 19 AÑOS DEL PROGRAMA
Entrevistante: ¿Cuáles han sido el crecimiento del show durante estos 19 años?
Geovani Gonzalez: Bueno, la verdad es que sí. Ha sido un cambio, una evolución. Creo que el show de radio ha cambiado y ha evolucionado conforme también ha cambiado y ha evolucionado las necesidades de la gente, Es curioso porque a pesar de que somos un show de una estación de radio local, así como ha evolucionado la tecnología, creo que también nosotros hemos evolucionado. Hemos cambiado el hecho de repente de tener que quedarnos solos, o sea, de que solo; después de ser un colectivo de nueve, diez personas a quedarse, solamente una persona como total encargado. Creo que eso también nos hizo el hecho de cambiar la forma en como se hacía el show de radio, ¿no? Era evidente que teníamos que buscar formas para en mi caso, tratar de, pues sí, se puede decir como que encontrar cómo cubrir esos huecos que dejaron las personas. Esos puestos, digamos, dentro de la misma producción que se hacía semanalmente, que hay que decirlo, que cuando estaba el comité o el grupo de voluntarios de rock en español, el programa tenía como que una forma de hacerse cada semana se trataba de programar un show. De llevar una línea de decir esta semana tocamos estas bandas, la próxima semana ya no se toca. Pero ya cuando yo me quedo solo, pues evidentemente era muy complicado el poder planificar solo, tres horas de show, así que decidí hacerlo más improvisado, más, pues digamos sin tanta cuadratura y más espontaneidad, Tanto del locutor como el poder compartir con la gente. Y como lo digo, ha cambiado, ha evolucionado nuestro show, a pesar de que como lo digo, somos un show local, , somos parte de una estación local.
Creo que nosotros hemos cambiado, evolucionado a hacer un show más global. Muchos de los seguidores que tiene el show de radio a través del tiempo; en cómo ha entrado la tecnología, llámese redes sociales, llámese plataformas digitales donde la estación de radio ha logrado entrar y tener una aplicación o poder transmitir a través de internet. Nosotros, como show de radio; y yo siempre hablo en plural, como show de radio nunca hablo como personal, porque para mí el show de Radio Rock en español no es Geo o Geovanni, sino es el show de radio y cualquier persona puede venir y reemplazar a Geovani como locutor, pero creo que lo importante es que no se reemplace el show como opción para la gente. Entonces, siempre he hablado en plural, porque para mí, aunque quizás sea una persona la que hace el show, siempre he pensado que somos muchos involucrando en el hecho de que tratamos de o traté de, de cambiar el hecho de no tener el apoyo, digamos, de un grupo al tener el apoyo de la gente. Entonces fue cuando yo empecé, a crear el show de radio más a base de lo que la gente me decía, de lo que la gente nos pedía, de lo que la gente nos exigía de cierta forma. No solamente musicalmente, sino también incluso en entrevistas, incluso en formas de hacer shows especiales. Entonces yo fui como que apoyándome mucho y ahora en día eso es algo chistoso, porque pues mucha gente que está apoyando, que ha seguido el show por mucho tiempo, se siente parte, De, del show de radio. Entonces creo que esa ha sido como la evolución del show de radio, de cambiar, de ser algo que éramos como un grupo al hecho de ahora, la gente, los radioescuchas. Se son, no solamente se sienten, sino son parte del proyecto, son parte de cómo se realiza el show de radio semana a semana.
[00:16:20] FALTA DE RECONOCIMIENTO LOCAL, RECONOCIMIENTO REGIONAL EN INTERNACIONAL
Entrevistante: ¿Hay algo que, de lo que no hablamos de que te gustaría mencionar?
Geovani Gonzalez: Pues, yo creo que en general, estos casi 19 años, el show de radio ha sido una parte en donde hemos encontrado mucho, y digo, a lo mejor mucha gente pensará que el ser solamente una persona no vale mencionarlo, pero ha habido mucha gente que ha encontrado en el show de radio una forma de escape, una forma de reencontrarse con su cultura, con su.. Incluso una parte de su personalidad. Que de repente se quedan dentro o fuera de lo que son sus lugares de origen. Y que de repente llegan a una ciudad como Madison, pequeña, que de repente también, pues no les ofrece eso. Entonces, importante, creo yo, es el recalcar el trabajo que se ha hecho a través de estos 19 años con precarios instrumentos. A lo mejor el, el tener que invertir no solamente tiempo personal sino también económico. Para poder desarrollar este programa, el que se ha convertido también en un referente.
Hoy en día, después de 19 años, yo puedo decir, sentir orgullo de saber que hay artistas, promotores, bandas, músicos a nivel internacional que reconocen el nombre del show de Radio Rock en español de la ciudad de Madison, Wisconsin, y que sí, a lo mejor es un poco triste, de repente el no encontrar ese mismo, reconocimiento localmente hablando. En la ciudad. Digo, aquí quizás entra un poquito el hecho de que incluso nuestra estación de radio nos provee el tiempo, el aire, la frecuencia, los instrumentos para transmitir cada ocho días. Pero pues quizás de repente falta como que ese reconocimiento de la misma estación de radio de ver que hay un show de 19 años que está trabajando con algo que no encuentras en ningún parte de esta ciudad. O sea, no hay una base. De repente yo reconozco el trabajo que hay otros compañeros de la estación de radio que tienen más de 20 años en la estación de radio, pero digamos que encuentran apoyo en otras cosas que se llegan a hacer dentro de la ciudad. Que de repente el reggae, pues, hay bandas o hay DJs que hacen, este, shows locales y pues los programas de la estación se apoyan en eso.
Aquí en la ciudad de Madison la verdad es que ni DJs ni shows de rock en español hay, entonces nosotros hemos tenido que crear, al grado de que yo como locutor tener que también crear como un espacio o una imagen como DJ.. Y también a la misma vez, no solamente ser el locutor, el ingeniero, el productor del show de radio, sino también ser el DJ y hasta cierto punto también como promotor, Para poder crear espacios como shows locales de rock en español en la ciudad. Entonces, creo que es el show de radio como tal, creo que, como nombre, como show de radio, le queda corto a lo que realmente es, como, como proyecto, digamos que musical, incluso de vida, Como lo he dicho a título personal, el show de radio es como un escape, un, una bocanada de aire puro cada ocho días el miércoles a ver que vas a ir a la estación de radio tres horas a la semana. Poder escuchar, dirigirte a gente con el mismo gusto, a lo mejor no localmente, pero sabes que afuera hay gente que los escucha en Perú, en Colombia, en Argentina, en Chile, en el Centro América… O sea,, hay muchas cosas que de repente como show de radio nos han dado, y que nos siente, nos sentimos muy orgullosos de todo esto. Y bueno que hay este tipo de proyectos en donde quizás hay más personas como yo que estamos haciendo un trabajo muy fuerte, poco reconocido, pero que de cierta forma también le da un valor y un nombre a nivel internacional, incluso como en este caso a la ciudad de Madison. Porque. Vuelvo y repito, hay personas, grupos, artistas de otros países que quizás no sabían qué es Madison, Wisconsin, y cuando conocen el show, cuando tengo la oportunidad de hablar con ellos, de entrevistarlos, el saber que hay un show de radio en esta ciudad, pues pone a la ciudad en el mapa del general de la música alternativa.
[00:21:00] HACIENDO EL PROGRAMA COMO VOLUNTARIO
Entrevistante: Es importante recalcar que este, programa de radio es un programa totalmente voluntario. Entonces, ¿cómo ha sido para ti invertir tanto tiempo y esfuerzo y dinero, verdad, en este proyecto? Pero, mantener y mantenerlo vivo, Porque yo creo que hasta cierto punto es desgastante. Pero, cuéntanos un poquito de tu trayectoria en este aspecto.
Geovani Gonzalez: Pues es algo muy difícil y a la vez chistoso, Porque nosotros, al menos yo vengo de una digamos que como mexicano y como hombre tenemos una forma de ver la vida, En nuestros países. El mexicano y más como hombre y más si emigras a los Estados Unidos, tienes, eh, en tus hombros no sé si la necesidad o no sé históricamente cómo llamarlo, pero tienes que venir a trabajar. El hombre mexicano, tiene que salir a, a proveer, ser proveedor, De su casa, de su familia Y bueno, y más si estás en los Estados Unidos creo que es todavía más. El saliste de tu tierra, tienes que venirte a rifar, a echarle ganas a las cosas. Y la verdad es que ha habido un momento aquí en lo que es la ciudad. Lo que ha sido más bien este proyecto de radio en el que yo como persona, como hombre, como individuo, como mexicano, he tenido que llegar a un punto en donde tienes que decidir el hacer lo que te gusta o el hacer lo que necesitas. Y llegué a un punto en el que pues afortunadamente, y hay que decirlo, por el apoyo de la familia, pude decidir irme por lo que me gusta y no por lo que necesito.
Hay muchas personas que desafortunadamente; yo siempre lo he dicho que yo soy de un círculo muy, muy afortunado de poder hacer lo que le gusta y además pues sí, si bien no como que vivir exactamente de eso, pero digamos que sí te te mantiene. Digamos, de cierta forma el poder crear esto. Como lo dices, es un el show de radio desde que nació hasta el día de hoy, que va a cumplir 19 años es un proyecto totalmente voluntariado. A mí la estación de radio, de radio no me paga ni por ir cada ocho días hacer tres horas de radio, ni porque yo quiera ir a cubrir un evento, ni porque yo haga entrevistas. O sea, la estación de radio económicamente no me aporta nada. Digo, me aporta muchísimas otras cosas que han derivado a través del show de radio, que yo he podido sacar provecho. Pero así directamente que la estación de radio me pague por hacer el show de radio no, es totalmente voluntario. Y sí, es bien complicado. Es muy difícil el tener que… Pues evidentemente mucha gente podría pensar pues es irte solamente a los miércoles a hacer shows de radio y ya. Pero la verdad es que como lo digo, creo que ahí entraría la evolución. Este hecho ya se pasó a ser más de solo tres horas a la semana de radio. Incluso aunque yo quisiera que el show de radio se quedara solo en eso, en un show de radio, ya no puedo. Ya la gente te exige, los artistas te exigen.
He llegado a un punto en donde el show de radio es, ya es tan visible y tan conocido que ya no necesito yo a veces salir a buscar las entrevistas. Ya llegan los promotores y me dicen: “oye, tengo tal artista, tengo tal show, necesito que vengas a cubrir el evento. Tienes acceso al evento." Pero no te pagan ni la gasolina, ni los… si es necesario irse a quedar en, eh, algún hotel o cosas así. Entonces, aunque yo quisiera en este momento decir como… Y me ha tocado, Hay veces que sí, obviamente, aunque es algo que te gusta, algo que te llena, algo que te enorgullece hacer, pues evidentemente, como todo en esta vida, llega un punto de cansancio y a veces quieres tomarte como que ese respiro. Pero vuelvo y repito, el show ya es; ya lo suficientemente grande, que ya es difícil poder decir: “nos vamos a quedar solo como un show.” Y aunque yo quisiera, de repente llega la gente, te toca la puerta y te dice: “¿sabes qué? necesitamos que el show de radio apoye esto, haga esto.” Y, y pues ya sabes que cuando dicen el show de radio pues es evidentemente uno. El que tiene que, que cubrir eso.
[00:25:30] NUEVAS PLATAFORMAS Y FUTURO DEL PROGRAMA
Entrevistante: Pues has hecho un gran aporte, yo creo, a la ciudad de Madison, porque por lo menos yo puedo darme cuenta de que en los últimos 20 años se ha creado, se ha expandido las oportunidades para los latinos en Madison y también, o sea, desde una radio o una estación de radio que existía en Madison hasta tener diferentes, ahora, estaciones de radio también basadas en Madison. Ya sea que sean electrónicas o de otra manera, pero que la gente vive en Madison. ¿Cómo ves el futuro de Madison con las siguientes generaciones, y que, el futuro del show de radio también?
Geovani Gonzalez: Pues yo creo que como futuro, yo veo muy prometedor. Obviamente, la tecnología ha abierto muchas puertas que difícilmente podríamos pensar. Por decir cuando nosotros, cuando comenzamos hace 19 años el show de radio, el poder pensar ahora,.. Yo he tratado de crear una ramificación de rock en español. El show de radio como tal es el miércoles, pero puedes escuchar rock en español con un servidor de lunes a viernes en la plataforma TikTok y lo puedes escuchar también en, en Facebook. Entonces hemos creado como que esa forma de que no solamente se quede en un show de radio. Por eso es lo que digo, que el show de radio como tal ha crecido lo necesario a lo mejor o lo suficiente para ya no poderse quedar como un show de tres horas a la semana, Y en el futuro creo que veo eso. Es prometedor y a la vez es difícil. Porque vemos que las nuevas generaciones… Hablando a título de la música alternativa, pues es un poquito complicado porque pues están más, las nuevas generaciones, quizás están más movidas hacia lo que se está escuchando y a lo que se está sonando actualmente. Pero a la misma vez te das cuenta de que esas nuevas generaciones tienen las inquietudes de poder escuchar, el de repente ver a los niños que, que hay personajes que les gustan. El hecho de verse influenciado por otra persona. Es decir, es que esta tal persona es DJ y me gusta cómo lo hace y yo también quiero hacerlo o el que, porque escucho que, que toca algún ritmo, algún instrumento musical, lo quiero hacer.
Entonces creo que hemos dejado nosotros a título personal, como rock en español, creo que hemos dejado, estamos dejando, más bien, porque nosotros no hemos terminado. No creemos que no hemos llegado ni siquiera a la mitad de donde nos hemos imaginado como show de radio y como proyecto. Entonces creo que mientras la estación de radio nos siga dando esa posibilidad de seguir transmitiendo, vamos a seguir trabajando. Y esto, vamos a seguir creando precisamente esos espacios, esas aperturas, esos cimientos para que las nuevas generaciones tengan la oportunidad, Y el día de mañana, como lo dije, no sea Geo en el show de radio o Geovani en el show de radio, sino más bien que alguien venga y que siga el show de Radio Rock en español, y que no sea visto como una persona, sino que sea un proyecto que siga vivo y que siga manteniendo esos espacios abiertos. Y creo que, que falta trabajo, falta mucho trabajo, yo creo que lo estamos haciendo.
[00:29:15] SER UN EMPRENDEDOR EN LA MÚSICA ALTERNATIVA
Entrevistante: Otra parte de tu trabajo es también… Eres un emprendedor en Madison y también nos gustaría hablar un poco de eso, porque creo que eres el único DJ que conocemos en Madison que toca música alternativa. Por lo menos el único que yo conozco. Entonces, dinos cómo ha sido para ti vivir en esta ciudad y cómo ha sido tu trayectoria como emprendedor de la música alternativa en Madison.
Geovani Gonzalez: Pues ha sido muy complicado. Evidentemente, como show de radio es muy complicado. Digamos que en estos casi 20 años, 19 años del show de radio, ha habido dos espacios más de música alternativa y los dos espacios han sido en otras estaciones de radio, pero los dos otros espacios también han sido llevados por mí. O sea, yo he tenido que estar; en momentos llegué a estar hasta tres proyectos de radio en diferentes estaciones de radio, pero todos destinados hacia la música alternativa, pero todos llevados por mí. Entonces es muy complicado. Evidentemente, como DJ a nivel Wisconsin solo habemos dos DJs que nos dedicamos a la música alternativa. Y sí, evidentemente soy el único DJ, que toca totalmente música alternativa en español, ya que, mi amigo, al cual le mandé un saludo, a DJ Lobo en Milwaukee. Él toca música alternativa, toca rock, pero no es 100% rock en español, lo combina con otros idiomas, si lo queremos llamar así. Y yo la verdad es que 90%, 95% de lo que yo toco es rock en español.
¿Qué tan difícil ha sido? Pues al grado de que la mayor o las mayores presentaciones, pues, son fuera de Madison. Tengo que ir a tocar a Milwaukee y Chicago, que son las bases en donde nos han dado la oportunidad y nos hemos podido desarrollar más. El hecho de, como lo digo aquí en la ciudad de Madison, tener que salir a viajar tres horas, cuatro horas para poder ir a tocar en un evento de rock, porque pues aquí en Madison evidentemente no lo hay. Pero es muy difícil, sí, pero también ha sido muy gratificante, pues hemos tenido la oportunidad de poder abrir conciertos para bandas como Panteón Rococó, como El Gran Silencio, como Inspector, como el Tri. Grandes iconos de lo que es el rock en nuestro idioma, el rock en español, y quizás sea muy complicado el tener que viajar a otras ciudades, no poderlo hacer aquí en Madison. Pero creo que también de cierta forma te gratifica el hecho de poder compartir escenarios y que un DJ local de la ciudad de Madison tenga la oportunidad de estar compartiendo escenarios y abriendo espacios. Quizás no localmente, pero en otras ciudades, con artistas que ya tienen un renombre y una historia dentro del mundo del rock en español.
[00:32:25] IMPORTANCIA DE LOS ESPACIOS LOCALES
Entrevistante: Nos da mucho gusto que estés con nosotros y que nos des esta entrevista. Esperamos que para ti también, haya sido placentero, el haber podido contribuir con los archivos de la biblioteca pública de Madison.. ¿Hay algo más que te gustaría agregar?
Geovani Gonzalez: Pues principalmente agradecer el espacio. Como lo digo, es importante, de repente, digo, sonará un poco diferente, pero quizás el poder darle una vuelta a la baraja de las personas que participan dentro de la comunidad latina. Hay muchas personas que quizás no están en el radar de la gente que normalmente tiene como estandarte la bandera del latino en la ciudad, pero que también están haciendo las cosas muy bien y que están trabajando muy fuerte ahí. Desde los chicos que están haciendo DJ en la ciudad, que cada vez hay más DJs latinos jóvenes, hasta incluso los que están haciendo podcast. Son latinos que están saliendo desde la ciudad de Madison a nivel internacional, hay comediantes latinos. Jóvenes comediantes latinos que es muy chistoso porque vas a encontrar que quizás ese círculo que se mueve de repente por nuestra sociedad latina en la ciudad de Madison es tan pequeño a lo que se está haciendo afuera de. Entonces, agradecer a estos espacios, agradecer a esta iniciativa, a este programa de la biblioteca de Madison, la oportunidad de expresarnos. Aquellos que de repente no tenemos tanta oportunidad de hacerlo localmente hablando. Agradecer mucho este espacio y que ojalá este espacio sea aprovechado también por otras personas que están haciendo las cosas muy bien y que pues a lo mejor no estamos tanto en el radar local, pero que se están haciendo cosas muy importantes fuera de ese radar local, y representando a la comunidad latina de Madison.
[00:34:35] CONTACTOS PARA LAS REDES SOCIALES
Entrevistante: Y ya para cerrar, ¿te gustaría dejarnos aquí en los archivos también tu información? Si hay gente que quiere comunicarse contigo, si hay gente que le gustaría igual participar y ser voluntaria en el programa de radio. ¿cómo se pueden contactar contigo?
Geovani Gonzalez: Claro que sí. Cualquier idea es bienvenida, para aportar. Siempre lo hemos dicho, la idea es crear un espacio de música alternativo y no que sea una persona la que lleva el estandarte, digamos, Que sea un show. Puedes encontrarme en mis redes sociales. Estoy como Geo González en Facebook, ese es mi perfil personal, Geo González. O estoy en las redes sociales del show de radio. Lo pueden encontrar como Rock. @RockenEspanol13, “espanol”, no español, con n. "Rock en Espanol 13", tanto en Instagram como en las páginas de Facebook.. Es la misma dirección y ahí nos pueden mandar mensaje en la página de Facebook de la estación del show de radio. Tenemos tanto el botón de Messenger como en el de WhatsApp y yo soy el que contesto la mayoría. Porque sí tengo personas que me ayudan en las redes sociales del show, pero en general yo trato de contestar todos los mensajes o preguntas. Principalmente todos los mensajes me los mandan a mí y yo soy el que los contesto.
[00:36:20] PERSONAS QUE ESCUCHAN EL PROGRAMA DESDE LA CARCEL
Entrevistante: E incluso también hay una dirección física porque recuerdo en los principios del show, el hecho de que este show es tan importante que ha trascendido no solo fronteras de países, pero también fronteras físicas, ya que sé que hay un grupo de personas que los escucha en…
Geovani Gonzalez: Las cárceles.
Entrevistante: En las cárceles. ¿Entonces también hay una dirección física donde ellos pueden enviar, una carta?
Geovani Gonzalez: Y esto es algo que también cabe mucho mencionar, el ser un programa que, pues, para ciertas personas en difíciles circunstancias de la vida se ha convertido en un escape, en unas alas. Nosotros siempre que tenemos la oportunidad de comunicarnos con ellos,tenemos ese dicho. Siempre que los saludamos les decimos “Cierren los ojos y a través de la música viajen.” Que la música,, que el rock sean sus alas y que los lleven a donde ustedes se sienten mejor, más cómodos y esos momentos felices. A través de los 19 años hemos tenido un grupo muy, muy, muy grande yo creo que, si hablamos localmente, que nuestro grupo más fuerte y más grande ha sido ese el de las cárceles. Y sí, claro, la estación de radio tiene una dirección, es el 118 de la South Bedford Street, aquí en la ciudad de Madison, Wisconsin. Y para cualquier carta solamente pónganlo a nombre de “rock en español” o de Geovani González y ahí pueden mandarnos.
Entrevistante: Bueno. Geovani González, locutor de “Rock en Español” y DJ en Madison de música alternativa. Muchas gracias por compartir tu historia. Estamos muy agradecidos contigo.
Identifier: madmex-001
Narrator: Geovani González
Interviewer Name: Claudia González
Date of Interview: 2022-12-07
INDEX
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
[00:01:35] CHALLENGES OF COMING TO LIVE IN MADISON
[00:03:10] BECOMING THE HOST OF SPANISH ROCK SHOW
[00:12:10]CHANGES TO THE SHOW OVER 19 YEARS
[00:16:20] LACK OF LOCAL RECOGNITION, REGIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION
[00:21:00] DOING THE SHOW AS A VOLUNTEER
[00:25:30] NEW PLATFORMS AND FUTURE OF THE SHOW
[00:29:15] BEING AN ALTERNATIVE MUSIC ENTREPRENEUR
[00:32:25] IMPORTANCE OF LOCAL SPACES
[00:34:35] SOCIAL MEDIA CONTACT INFO
[00:36:20] INCARCERATED LISTENERS
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
Interviewer: Hello, my name is Claudia. Today’s date is December 7, 2022, and I’m here with Geovani Gonzalez, he is the host of the Radio show Rock en Español. We’re interviewing him for the Living History for the Madison Public Library. Do you want to introduce yourself?
Geovani Gonzalez: Hello, good morning. My name is Geovani Gonzalez, I’m 40 years old, I’m Mexican, originally from Mexico City and I’ve been living in the city of Madison for approximately 20 years.
Interviewer: Do you want to tell us, how does your story connect with our project?
Geovani Gonzalez: Well, I am a person that has created a space or I’m still working to create a space, in this case, musically speaking, of alternative music in the city of Madison. And I think that this project that's being done with the public library and that is focused in recognizing the work from some Latin people in the community that we’ve worked hard to make, maybe, in some way, a difference in our community.
[00:01:35] CHALLENGES OF COMING TO LIVE IN MADISON
Interviewer: What have been some of the challenges you've had to face?
Geovani Gonzalez: When I came here to the city of Madison, Wisconsin, approximately 20 years ago; I come from a city, as I mentioned, a cosmopolitan city, an enormous city, a big city, one of the biggest cities worldwide that is Mexico City, and I was used to have, maybe, from different perspectives, but to have everything at hand, right? From being able to go out at any time to being able to eat and listen to whatever I wanted. When I arrived at this city, I found a smaller city, perhaps cozier But that, lacked some things. And for an individual who comes from a city that practically never sleeps to a city that has other traditions and other ways of looking at life, the same rhythm that you experience here in the city of Madison is not the same rhythm present in a city like Mexico City. I think that was one of the first challenges Getting used to having to come from such a huge city, to such a small city and that, maybe yes, as I tell you, very cozy, but, well, in a certain way it had its limitations or that I didn't fully meet my needs
[00:03:10] BECOMING THE HOST OF SPANISH ROCK SHOW
Interviewer: Could you tell us how you became the host of the Rock en Español show?
Geovani Gonzalez:I heard about the Spanish rock radio show. It has to be mentioned. I'm not exactly the pioneer of the radio show. Right now, I am in total charge of the radio show, but I arrive at the radio show when the radio show was already three months old. There was a collective of approximately eight or nine people who had come together to create a space for alternative music. Obviously, this is based on the fact of the, what we were talking about the necessity, right? To have something different in the, in the community. And well, in their, in their thinking was "if you don't have it, then make it," and, and they were the first, right? This collective, this group of, of people of different nationalities, not only Mexicans, but there were also Spaniards, there were Chileans, there were Argentines, there were Colombians and of course there was a base of, of Mexicans. I found out about it through a family friend who evidently realized the fact of my needs in terms of music, to be able to have something that I couldn't find here in the city. It must be said that, in a certain way, when I arrived in the city, I was very square-minded and my tastes were very much my own and it was not like adapting to other musical tastes.So this person talks to me and says: "you know what?" "there is a radio show in a radio station,,I don't know, you should listen to it. They say they play,alternative music in Spanish, rock and well it wouldn't hurt." Then, one random day, after coming back from work, it was Wednesday and I remember that I had been told about this radio station. I look it up on the radio and I listen to it. And well, to my surprise, evidently, I started to listen to music that I had not listened to for a long time and much less on the radio. And I got connected very quickly with, with the music and with the broadcasters that, at that time were on the radio. So, I decided to call the radio station to ask for some songs, maybe to my surprise, the people who answered me at that moment let me know that they did have the style of music, but that they didn't have exactly the songs I was asking for, right.
Luckily or fortunately, I don't know, in those days a friend from Mexico had sent me a package with discs that I had left in Mexico and, among them there were some new discs that had been sent to me at that, at that time, had just come out in Mexico, of ska, of reggae and I decided to offer my discs to the volunteers at that time of the radio station. Telling them that, if they needed them, it was a matter of coming to an agreement and being able to give them to them. Well, that's it. I talk to the people and we agreed that next week they will invite me to the radio station with the sole purpose of giving them the discs. They, in a certain way made copies of the records and kept them for their library. So that they could play them in the shows. There was never an intention for me to stay at the radio station or for me to stay with the radio show. The day is coming, I arrive at the WORT radio station, where for almost 19 years now, it's where the radio show has been on. And , I arrived,I introduced myself at that time with the group. As I tell you, there were between eight or nine people and I show my records, they invite me, they tell me: "well, stay today, tonight so you can see how to make a show". That's it. I give them the discs and, and they say, "Come next week to pick up your discs." Okay, that's fine. in the next week I go back to the radio station to pick up... The purpose, as I tell you from the beginning, was simply to contribute from the perspective of music instead of staying. I came back and that day they asked me if I wanted to stay and help them answer the phones. Supporting. The fact is that I think that a lot of this history of the show, not so much mine, but of the show as, as such, is the fact that many of us who have participated during these almost 19 years of the show, we have always tried, to find people with the same tastes and when you find a person who has the same taste as you, you kind of want to share it. And the radio show I think has become that, a way to share a taste for alternative music, for rock, for ska, for reggae. So, a few months went by.
I was assisting more as backup, as a help to answer phones. And well, like everything else, suddenly when there is a what do you call it, there is a collective. Suddenly there are people who for X or Y reason start to leave the collective and it starts to become smaller and then it is when officially the one who was in charge offers me to stay as part of the Spanish rock collective. I started answering phones, but then due to the absence of more colleagues, I started to move up to broadcasting and then to the point of being an engineer. Of being able to move the controls There were nights when I had to be in the middle of the show broadcasting and half of the show at the controls and I could run the show, right? Unfortunately for X or Y reason, colleagues begin to, to leave the project until it got to the point where I was left with the radio show. And that's the breaking point of this host and of the radio show where Well, the truth is that there is a moment where I feel a bit pressured with the fact of having a project so... Well, for us who have participated in this project, it is a very important project. The radio show is something like part of our life. Those of us who have participated have always believed that the people who are going to come for a month, even a year or less, well, it means time, doesn’t it? And we believe that time is something that never comes back and to be able to give that time to the radio show is the responsibility that stays with those of us who decide to stay. And at that moment, I'm left alone. I was about to give up the radio show. I think that when we had, maybe five years, maybe less, four years, that the other colleagues decided to leave, and I was left alone. I talked to the radio station to thank them because I really didn't feel I had the capacity to have a show on my own. For this, I don't know if it's chance, fate, but the radio station, you can't just walk out of a show, just like that. They ask me for a period of a month to find someone to stay with the show, but also the person in charge of the radio station at that time, of the volunteers. Well, he tells me: "we are going to look for someone in a month, but maybe that month will be useful for you to, well, think about it. In other words, think about whether you need it or not". That's how at that time is when I am totally and absolutely, in charge of, of the whole Rock en Español radio. I am totally and absolutely responsible for the content of the music, literally of the radio show.
[00:12:10]CHANGES TO THE SHOW OVER 19 YEARS
Interviewer: What has been, the growth of the show over the last 19 years?
Geovani Gonzalez: It has been a change, an evolution. I think the radio show has changed and evolved as people’s needs have changed and evolved. It’s funny because even though we are a local radio station show, as technology has evolved, we have also evolved. We’ve changed from being a collective of nine, ten people to just a single person in charge. I think that also made us change the way we did the radio show. It was obvious that we had to look for ways to fill those gaps that people left. Those positions within the same production that was done weekly. It must be said, that when there was the committee or the group of volunteers of Rock in Spanish, the program had like a way to be done every week, it was about scheduling a show, right? From, from following a pattern of saying: “this week we play these bands, next week we don’t play them anymore”. But when I was on my own, it was very complicated to be able to plan by myself a three-hour show, so I decided to make it more improvised. without so much planning and more spontaneity Both broadcaster as well as being able to share with the people. And it has changed, our show has evolved, even though we are a local show.
I think that we have changed, we have evolved to do a more global show, Many of the followers that the radio show has through time; in how technology has entered, social networks, digital platforms where the radio station has been able to enter and have an application or be able to broadcast through the internet. We, as a radio show; and I always speak in plural, as a radio show I never speak as personal, because for me the rock radio show in Spanish is not Geo or Geovani, but it is the radio show and any person can come and replace Geovani as broadcaster. But I think the important thing is not to replace the show as an option for the people, right? So, uh, I’ve always spoken in the plural, because for me, even though maybe it’s one person doing the show, I’ve always thought that there are many of us involved in the fact that we tried to change the fact of not having the support of a group people. So that’s when I started to create the radio show more based on what people told me, what people asked us, what people wanted, what people demanded in a certain way, right? Not only musically, but also in interviews, even in, in ways of doing special shows. So, then I was kind of getting a lot of support and nowadays that’s kind of funny, because a lot of people who are supporting, who have been following the show for a long time, feel part of it. So, I think that’s been like the evolution of the radio show, from being like a group to the fact that now the people, the radio listeners. Not only do they feel, but they are part of the project, they are part of how the radio show is carried out week by week.
[00:16:20] LACK OF LOCAL RECOGNITION, REGIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION
Interviewer: Is there something that we haven’t talked about that you would like to mention?
Geovani Gonzalez: I think that in general, these almost 19 years, there have been many people who have found in the radio show a way to escape, a way to find again their culture. Even a part of their personality. That suddenly they stay inside or outside of their places of origin. And that suddenly they arrive in a city like Madison, a small city, that suddenly doesn’t offer them that. So, it is important, I think, to emphasize the work that has been done throughout these 19 years with limited instruments. Perhaps having to invest not only personal time but also money, right? To be able to develop this program, which has also become a touchstone.
Nowadays, after 19 years, I can say I feel proud to know that there are artists, promoters, bands, musicians at an international level that recognize the name of the Rock en Español radio show in Spanish from the city of Madison, Wisconsin, and that yes, maybe it’s a little sad, suddenly not finding that same, recognition locally speaking.,... I mean, maybe here comes the fact that even our radio station provides us with the time, the air, the frequency, the instruments to transmit every eight days. But then, maybe suddenly there is a lack of recognition from the radio station itself, to see that there is a 19-year-old show that is working with something that you don’t find anywhere else in this city. That is, there is no support. Suddenly I recognize the work of other colleagues at the radio station who have been with the station for more than 20 years, but let’s say that they find support in other things that are happening in the city. Reggae, well, there are bands or DJs that do local shows and the station’s programs are based on that.
Here in the city of Madison the truth is that there are no DJs or rock shows in Spanish, so we have had to create, to the extent that I as a broadcaster, have to create a space or an image as a DJ And also at the same time, not only being the broadcaster, the engineer, the producer of the radio show, but also being the DJ and to a certain extent also as a promoter To be able to create spaces like local Spanish rock shows in the city. I think that the radio show as a name falls short of what it really is as a project, let’s say musical, even of life. I have said on a personal level, the radio show is like an escape, a breath of fresh air every eight days on Wednesday to see that you are going to the radio station three hours a week. To be able to listen, to address people with the same taste, maybe not locally, but you know that outside there are people who listen to them in Peru, in Colombia, in Argentina, in Chile, in Central America... I mean, there are many things that suddenly as a radio show have given us and we feel very proud of all this. And how good that there are these kinds of projects where maybe there are more people like me who are doing very strong work, poorly recognized, but that in a certain way also adds value and a name at an international level, even as in this case to the city of Madison. Because, once again, there are people, groups, artists from other countries that maybe didn’t know what Madison, Wisconsin is, and when they know about the show, when I have the opportunity to talk to them, to interview them, to know that there is a radio show in this city, it puts the city in there. On the map of alternative music in general.
[00:21:00] DOING THE SHOW AS A VOLUNTEER
Interviewer: It's important to emphasize that this radio program is an all-volunteer program. So, what has it been like for you to invest so much time and effort and money in this project? But, to maintain and keep it alive? Because I think that it's exhausting to a certain extent. But tell us a little bit about your background in this aspect.
Geovani Gonzalez: Well it’s difficult and funny at the same time, isn't it? Because let's say that as a Mexican and as a man I have a way of looking at life.. Being Mexican and especially as a man and even more so if you emigrate to the United States, you have on your shoulders, I don't know if the need or I don't know historically what to call it, but you have to come to work. The Mexican man has to go out to be a provider. For his home, for his family and even more if you are in the United States. If you left your homeland, you have to come to stand out, to put your heart and soul into things. And the truth is that there has been a moment here in this radio project in which I as a person, as a man, as an individual, as a Mexican, I have had to reach a point where you have to decide to do what you like or to do what you need to do. I reached a point where fortunately, and it must be said, thanks to the support of my family, I was able to decide to go for what I like and not for what I need.
There are many people who unfortunately; I have always said it, that I am from a very fortunate circle to be able to do what I like. And also, yes, although I don't exactly make a living from it, but let's say that it provides for you, doesn't it? In a certain way to be able to create this a radio show since it was born until today, which is going to be 19 years old, it is a totally voluntary project. The radio station, the radio station does not pay me to go every eight days to do three hours of radio, nor because I want to cover an event, nor because I do interviews. In other words, the radio station does not give me anything economically. I mean, it gives me a lot of other things that have been derived through the radio show, that I have been able to take advantage of. But, does the radio station pay me directly for doing the radio show? No, it is totally voluntary. And yes, it is very complicated. It is very difficult. Obviously many people might think that it's like this: you just go on Wednesdays to do radio shows and that's it, right? But the truth is that, I think that's where the evolution would come in. In fact, it became more than just three hours a week of radio. Even if I wanted the radio show to remain just that, a radio show, I can't do it anymore. People demand you; artists demand you.
I have reached a point where the radio show is already so visible and so well known that sometimes I no longer need to go out and get interviews. Promoters come and tell me: "hey, I have this artist, I have this show, I need you to come and cover the event. You have access to the event." But they don’t even pay for your gas, or if you need to go stay in some hotel or things like that. So, even though I would like to say at this moment like... And it has happened to me, hasn't it? There are times when, although it is something that you like, something that fulfills you, something that you are proud to do, well, like everything in this life, there comes a point of fatigue and sometimes you want to take a break. But I insist, the show is already big enough that it is difficult” say: "we are going to stay just as a show". And even if I wanted to, suddenly people come and knock on your door and say, "You know what, we need the radio show to support this, to do this." And, and well you know when they say the radio show, it's obviously you, right? The one that has to cover that.
[00:25:30] NEW PLATFORMS AND FUTURE OF THE SHOW
Interviewer: Well, you've made a great contribution, I think, to the city of Madison, because a least I can see that in the last 20 years there's been an expansion of opportunities for Latin people in Madison and also, I mean, from a radio or a radio station that existed in Madison to having different, radio stations also based in Madison, Whether they're electronic or otherwise that people live in Madison.. What do you see in the future for Madison? How do you see the future of Madison with the next generations, and what is the future of the radio show as well?
Geovani Gonzalez: I think that as a future, I see a very promising one. Obviously, this technology has opened many doors that we could hardly think of. When we started the radio show 19 years ago, to be able to think now… I've tried to create an offshoot of rock in Spanish. The radio show as such is on Wednesdays, but, uh, you can listen to Rock en Español with yours truly Monday through Friday on the TikTok platform and you can also listen to it on Facebook. So, we have created this way of not only being a radio show. That's why I am telling you, that the radio show as such has grown enough to not be able to stay as a show of three hours a week. It's promising and at the same time difficult. Because we see that the new generations... Speaking in terms of, of alternative music. Well, it is a little bit complicated because the new generations, maybe they are more inclined towards what is being listened to and what is being played now. But at the same time, you realize that these new generations have the concern of being able to listen, to suddenly see the children that there are personalities that they like. The fact of being influenced by another person. I mean, this person is a DJ and I like how he does it and I also want to do it or that, because I hear that, that they play a certain rhythm, a certain musical instrument, I want to do it. So personally, as Rock en Español I think we are leaving, actually, because we have not finished. Wwe believe that we have not even reached half of where we have imagined ourselves as a radio show and as a project.
So, I think that as long as the radio station continues to give us the possibility to continue broadcasting, we will continue working. And we are going to continue creating precisely those spaces, those openings, those foundations so that the new generations have the opportunity. And tomorrow, as I said, it will not be Geo on the radio show or Geovani on the radio show, but rather someone will come and continue the Rock en Español Radio Rock, and that, it will not be seen as a person, but that it will be a project that will continue to live and that will continue to keep those spaces open. And I think that there is a lot of work to be done, much work to be done, but I think we are on the right track.
[00:29:15] BEING AN ALTERNATIVE MUSIC ENTREPRENEUR
Interviewer: Another part of your job is also being an entrepreneur in Madison and we would also like to talk a little about that, because I think that… you’re the only DJ that we know in Madison that plays alternative music. At least the only one I know of. So, tell us what it's been like for you living in this city and what your trajectory has been as an entrepreneur in alternative music in Madison.
Geovani Gonzalez: Well, it has been very complicated.As a radio show it is very complicated to... Let's say that in these almost 20 years, 19 years of the radio show, there have been two more spaces of alternative music and both spaces have been in other radio stations, but the two other spaces have also been led by me. That is to say, I have had, at times, up to three radio projects in different radio stations, but all of them have been dedicated to alternative music, all of them have been led by me. So, it is very complicated. As a DJ at a Wisconsin level, there's only two of us, two DJs that are dedicated to alternative music. And I'm the only DJ that, that plays totally alternative music in Spanish, since my, my friend, who I sent a greeting to DJ Lobo in Milwaukee. He plays alternative music, he plays rock, but it's not 100% rock in Spanish, he combines it with other languages. And the truth is that 90%, 95% of what I play is Spanish rock,
How difficult has it been? To the extent that... the biggest presentations are outside of Madison I have to go to play in Milwaukee and Chicago, which are the bases where they have given us the opportunity and we have been able to develop more The fact that, as I tell you here in the city of Madison, having to travel three hours, four hours to be able to go and play in a rock event, because here in Madison there obviously isn't one. It is very difficult, yes, but it has also been very gratifying, because we have had the opportunity to open concerts for bands like Panteon Rococo, like El Gran Silencio, like Inspector, like El Tri. Great icons of rock in our language, rock in Spanish.And, maybe it is very complicated to have to travel to other cities, not being able to do it here in Madison. But I think that in a way it's also gratifying to be able to share stages and that a local DJ from the city of Madison has the opportunity to share stages and open spaces. Maybe not locally, but in other cities, but with artists who already have a reputation and a history in the world of rock in Spanish.
[00:32:25] IMPORTANCE OF LOCAL SPACES
Interviewer: We're very glad that you're with us and that you're giving us this interview. We hope that it's been pleasant for you too to have been able to contribute to the archives of the Madison Public Library. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Geovani Gonzalez: Mainly thank you for the space. As I say, it's important, maybe sound a little different, but to turn the tables on the people who participate within the Latino community. There's a lot of people that maybe aren't on the radar of people that are normally standard bearers for the Latin community in the city, but they're also doing things very well and they're working very hard out there. From the kids who are working as DJs in the city, there are more and more Latino DJs. Young people, even those who are doing podcasts. Latino people that are coming out of the city of Madison internationally. There are Latino comedians. Young Latino comedians, which is very funny because you will find that maybe that circle that is moving suddenly in Latino society in the city of Madison is so small compared to what is being done outside. So, I thank these spaces, I thank, this program of the Madison library, for the opportunity to express ourselves. Those of us who suddenly don't have as much opportunity to do it locally speaking. Thank you very much for this space and I hope that this space will also be used by other people who are doing things very well and who are not so much on the local radar, but who are doing very important things outside of the local radar and representing the Latino community of Madison.
[00:34:35] SOCIAL MEDIA CONTACT INFO
Interviewer: And just to conclude, would you like to leave your information here in the archives as well? If there are people who would like to communicate with you, if there were people who would like to participate and, and volunteer in, in the radio program. How, how can they contact you?
Geovani Gonzalez: Of course. Any idea is welcome, to be contributed. We have always said it, the idea is to create a space for alternative music and not for one person to be the, the one who carries the banner. It should be a show. You can find me on my social networks. I'm as Geo Gonzalez on Facebook, that's my personal profile, Geo Gonzalez. Or I'm on the social networks of the radio show. You can find it as Rock. @Rocken Espanol13", "espanol", not español, with ñ. "Rock en Espanol 13", both on Instagram and Facebook pages. It is the same address and there you can send us a message on the Facebook page of the radio show.. We have both the Messenger button and the WhatsApp button and I'm the one who answers most of them. Because I do have people who help me with the social networks of the show, but in general I almost try to answer all the messages or questions. Mainly all the messages are sent to me and I am the one who answers them.
[00:36:20] INCARCERATED LISTENERS
Interviewer: And there's a physical address because I remember in the beginning of the show it's worth mentioning, the fact that this show is so important that it has transcended not only borders of countries but also physical borders, since I know there's a group of people that listen to them in
Geovani Gonzalez: Prison.
Interviewer: In prison. So, there's also a physical address where they can send a letter?
Geovani Gonzalez: And this is something that is also worth mentioning, being a program that, for certain people in difficult life circumstances has become an escape, some wings. Whenever we have the opportunity to communicate with them, we always have that saying. Whenever we greet them, we say to them "Close your eyes and travel through music." May the music, may the rock be your wings and take you to where you feel better, more comfortable and those happy moments. And 19 years we have had a very, very, very large group, I think that, if we speak locally, our strongest and largest group has been that one, the one in the prisons. And yes, the radio station as such has an address, it's 118 South Bedford Street, here in the city of Madison, Wisconsin. And for any letter just put it in the name of "Rock en Español" or Geovani Gonzalez.
Interviewer: All right. Geovani Gonzalez, broadcaster of "Rock en Español" and DJ in Madison of alternative music. Thank you very much for sharing your story. We thank you very much.
ÍNDICE
00:00:00 INTRODUCCIÓN
00:01:50 INICIANDO EL NEGOCIO
00:04:50 RETOS Y ÉXITOS DE LLEVAR UN NEGOCIO DURANTE 20 AÑOS
00:07:40 AMBIENTE ACTUAL DE NEGOCIOS Y FUTURO
00:09:10 LA TIENDA A TRAVÉS DE LOS AÑOS, PRESENTE Y FUTURO
00:14:00 LA FAMILIA Y LOS NEGOCIOS A TRAVÉS DE LAS GENERACIONES
00:00:00 INTRODUCCIÓN
Entrevistante: Hola. Mi nombre es Marisol y hoy es martes 13 de diciembre del 2022. Estamos aquí con la señora María García, eh, socia de la tienda Marimar en Park Street, grabando una historia para la Biblioteca Pública de Madison para el proyecto de Historias Vivas. Ahora voy a permitirle a nuestra narradora que se presente.
María García: Hola. Mi nombre es María García y yo soy mexicana. Yo llegué a Estados Unidos cuando tenía 15 años. A Madison llegué cuando tenía 17 y aquí he vivido en este hermoso pueblo que a mí me encanta y… pues aquí estamos. Yo soy socia de Mercado Marimar.
Entrevistante: ¿Podemos empezar esta conversación hablando acerca de su conexión con nuestro tema, el cual es el crecimiento de los negocios latinos en Madison?
María García: Pues… ha sido muy bonito. Yo tengo 22 años con la tienda Marimar, esta tiendita desde el día primero ha sido una muy buena tienda. Esta tiendita fue el soporte de otros negocios fracasados que tuvimos en el pasado y, y siempre se sostuvo. Y, pues aquí estamos todavía después de 22 años y ahora está mejor que nunca. 2022 estamos mejor que nunca gracias a la comunidad de Madison, comunidad latina y ahora en día no nada más somos latinos, hay diferentes razas étnicas que vienen aquí a la tiendita.
00:01:50 INICIANDO EL NEGOCIO
Entrevistante: ¡Muy bien! ¿Podría contarnos la historia de cómo, cuándo y por qué inició su negocio?
María García: Pues con mucho trabajo. Bueno, nosotros empezamos en otra tienda que fue Odana Road, de comida. en 1998. Y esa tienda nosotros la vendimos en el 2005. Se la vendimos a los que son ahora “Los Gemelos”. Y esta tienda de aquí de Park Street la abrimos en en septiembre del 2000 y… pues la abrimos porque había necesidad de una tienda que tuviera productos mexicanos. En aquel entonces solamente había una tienda mexicana, era una tiendita pequeñita que estaba en Milwaukee Street que se llamaba “la mexicana del señor José Bañuelos”. Y yo tenía en aquel entonces una tienda de ropa en Odana Road. Y yo miraba cómo en aquel entonces venía mucha gente de Sauk City. Pasaban a una tienda que era… Todavía existe, es una tiendita oriental, pero vendía y vende producto mexicano. Y yo me miraba cómo ellos llegaban a Madison, pasaban primero a la tiendita oriental a comprar sus tortillas y luego pasaban conmigo a comprarse sus discos. Y de ahí me nació a mí la idea de por qué no abrir también yo una tienda de comida que estuviera más cerca a la gente de Sauk City, de Baraboo, que venía mucho aquí a Madison. Fue donde nació la idea. Y eso fue en 1998. Y después en el 2000 fue aquí en Park Street.
Entrevistante: ¿Cómo se veía Madison y la comunidad latina al inicio de su negocio?
María García: Se veía bastante bien. Yo podría decir que mis negocios que yo he tenido, que fueron varios,, todo el tiempo me fue bien. Pero algunos de ellos fue cuestión de que crecimos muy rápido y un poco desordenados y pues llegó un momento que no pudimos con todo, con tantos negocios. Y tuvimos que cerrar unos, otros los vendimos, pero al final de todo nos quedamos con esta tienda que está aquí en Park Street y, como dije, esta desde el día 1 fue buena tienda y sigue siendo muy buena tienda.
00:04:50 RETOS Y ÉXITOS DE LLEVAR UN NEGOCIO DURANTE 20 AÑOS
Entrevistante: ¿Cuáles han sido los retos que ha tenido que superar para mantener su negocio por más de 20 años?
María García: Muchos. Para mencionar algunos, el del COVID. El COVID estuvo duro y tratar de... Bueno, no, no tratar. Estuvimos abiertos todo el tiempo, pero ese fue uno difícil, pero fue bueno a la vez porque después del COVID, nuestra tienda, no sé por qué razón, se, se mejoró y aún sigue bastante bien. Se mejoró bastante. Sí, pienso que fue porque en ese entonces, en digamos 2021, más bien 2020, cuando cerraron los restaurantes. Esta tiendita siendo esencial, a mí en ningún momento me dijeron que no podía trabajar de la cocina. Entonces, como no había muchas opciones, muchísima gente empezó a venir aquí. Mucha gente que no conocía nuestra cocina empezó a venir aquí y mucha de esa gente le gustó y se quedó y está muy bien ahora en día.
Entrevistante: ¿Qué tal, los trabajadores? ¿usted inició con restaurante o con la tienda de abarrotes?
María García: No, iniciamos con tienda de abarrotes y la cocina fue después y siempre lo he dicho y lo digo públicamente, que yo estoy bendecida, tengo muy buenos trabajadores y pues yo agradezco a Dios y a mis trabajadores que siempre me han apoyado.
Entrevistante: Este, y, por ejemplo, si la gente quiere cosas específicas de México, ¿han venido a pedirle: “oiga señora, necesitamos, molcajetes o tortilleros, U, ollitas de barro, ollas tamaleras” ¿es un reto para usted traer ese tipo de cosas?
María García: No, ahora en día todo eso es fácil para nosotros porque conocemos muchos proveedores. Durante los años, pues uno va conociendo y los proveedores lo van conociendo a uno Eso ahora en día no es difícil de conseguir.
Entrevistante: Pero al inicio sí fue.
María García: No, no mucho, no. Siempre, casi siempre hemos. Hay algunas cosas que a veces sí que la gente nos pide que no podemos conseguir, pero casi todo lo básico sí lo conseguimos.
00:07:40 AMBIENTE ACTUAL DE NEGOCIOS Y FUTURO
Entrevistante: ¿Cómo ve el futuro de los negocios latinos, hermanos?
María García: Ah, yo pienso que es bueno. Es muy fuerte, porque hay, ahora en día bastantes tienditas y yo pienso que la gran mayoría nos va bien y hay negocio para todos.
Entrevistante: Sí, hay una variedad muy grande de negocios latinos en Madison desde las tiendas, panaderías…
María García: Sí.
Entrevistante: Y restaurantes. Y… usted como dueña de negocio, ¿cómo ve el futuro Madison, y los latinos? ¿Se enorgullece de ver que haya tanta variedad, que haya tanta gente y que sea de contribución para la comunidad.
María García: Oh, sí. Es un orgullo hispano. Y pues no es fácil. Y yo le digo por los otros dueños de tiendas, eso sí, hay retos, es horas largas, a veces que no tiene uno trabajadores, pero uno ya estando en esto tiene que salir adelante. Y, Madison es una ciudad yo diría una ciudad rica, porque aquí todas las tiendas venden y todos estamos bien. Yo pienso que Madison es una, buena ciudad. A mí me encanta aquí Madison.
Entrevistante: ¿Hay algo más que le gustaría agregar que no hemos mencionado?
00:09:10 LA TIENDA A TRAVÉS DE LOS AÑOS, PRESENTE Y FUTURO
María García: Solamente quiero darle las gracias a todas las personas que algún día me escuchen. Las personas latinas de Madison que han aportado a mi tienda y desde lo más profundo de mi corazón quiero darle las gracias a toda esa gente que me ha apoyado por años y años. Tengo clientes que conozco desde hace 25, 30 años. De repente me caen aquí y les digo: “Wow, cuánto sin verlos.” Y me encanta verlos. Y yo pienso que algún día que no tenga la tienda es lo que voy a extrañar, la gente. Conozco mucha gente muy linda.
Entrevistante: ¿Y cuál es el futuro de Marimar? ¿Va a pasar de generación en generación?
María García: Pues esa es la idea. Pero a ver. Luego, a veces, como mis hijos, pues como el chiquito que aquí creció, entonces, a veces como que han visto de todo y como que eso los desanima. Mucho trabajo todos los días, pero yo creo que aquí vamos a estar otro buen rato.
Entrevistante: Podría decirnos de la gente que pueda escuchar esta grabación y que estén interesados de saber qué es lo que la tienda Marimar ofrece.
María García: Es una tiendita bastante completa. Tenemos carnicería, tenemos abarrotes, verduras frescas. Tenemos una excelente cocina. Vendemos tortillas hechas frescas los sábados y domingos. Hacemos comida para eventos. Tenemos los sábados y domingos yo le llamo la estrella de Marimar, que son nuestras deliciosas carnitas y barbacoa de borrego, barbacoa de res, tamales, quesadillas de flor de calabaza, de huitlacoche, de papas con chorizo, de pollo, muchos diferentes tacos y pues cuando quieran venir aquí, los esperamos con mucho gusto.
Entrevistante: Sí, de verdad es que cuando la gente a mí me pregunta, a dónde se come rico, auténtico, yo siempre recomiendo Marimar.
María García: Ay, gracias. Pero quiero agregar algo. Quiero decir que yo no soy la única y no quiero yo que la gente piense que todos los créditos, méritos y sacrificios han sido solamente míos. Hay otra persona que ahora en día valoro mucho y él es mi compañero socio Martín Mora. Yo siempre he dicho, ahora más que antes lo digo, que sin él yo no tendría la tienda porque él sí, este, aporta bastante apoyo para la tiendita. Eso es todo.
Entrevistante: Muchas gracias por su tiempo y por compartir su historia con nosotros. Es muy valioso saber que por más de 20 años este negocio latino ha prevalecido en nuestra comunidad y es estar justamente en medio de un vecindario donde, eh.
María García: Sí.
Entrevistante: Rodeado de gente latina.
María García: Sí.
Entrevistante: Y diversidad, entonces.
María García: Está en un lugar, este, muy bueno porque no le queda muy lejos a la gente del West, no le queda tan lejos a la gente del East. Y luego pues está cerquita del highway.
Entrevistante: Sí.
María García: Entonces está en muy buen lugar y pues aquí estamos echándole ganas todavía después de 22 años, cumplimos en septiembre. Cuando cumplimos 21, que fue el año pasado, todavía estaba más fuerte lo del COVID y yo le decía a Martin: “vamos, vamos a celebrar que ya es mayor de edad, ya tiene 21.” Y le digo pues: “¿cómo vamos a celebrar con lo del COVID?” También cuando cumplimos 15 le dije: “vamos a hacerle la quinceañera.” Y viene y me dice: “¿a quién?” Y pues a la tienda. Y digo no hemos hecho nada porque pues sería cerrar un día, todo el día para hacer una fiesta en grande, tal vez allá afuera. De repente el próximo verano nos animamos y la hacemos y pues. Ya van a ser casi 23 ya, y probablemente aquí voy a andar ya.
Y todavía las mañanas me sorprende que no sé yo de dónde saco tanta energía, pues yo me levanto y luego, luego ¿qué hay que hacer hoy? Me hago mis listas desde un día antes y las veo: okay, primero lo primero y por prioridades. Y luego al siguiente día otra lista. Y lo que no hice hoy lo pongo para la de mañana y así. Ya.
Entrevistante: Sí. Definitivamente ha sido un estilo de vida el tener un negocio.
María García: Sí. Sí.
00:14:00 LA FAMILIA Y LOS NEGOCIOS A TRAVÉS DE LAS GENERACIONES
Entrevistante: ¿Y usted tuvo, como, alguien antes en su familia, en su casa que tuvo negocio?
María García: Mi padre. Mi viejecito que acaba de fallecer en junio de este año, del 2022, falleció de COVID, de 92 años. Y lo vi yo en mayo y siempre, cuando me miraba me decía, me preguntaba: “¿Y cómo va tu negocio?” Y bien, curioso, porque nosotros somos nueve. Bueno, diez porque mi papá crió un nieto, seremos diez. Y a todos mis hermanos, más mis hermanos, pienso yo, les decía, que habían de poner negocios, que los negocios eran buenos y nadie le hizo caso. Y cuando supo de mí que yo tenía la tienda, vino varias veces aquí a Madison y me decía: “caramba”, decía. “A la que no le dije fue la que lo hizo.” Y cuando yo tenía como unos diez años, yo creo, pues yo veía a mi papá que él siempre le gustó el comercio y tenía una tiendita ahí en la casa. Y no me gustaba ayudarle porque yo no sabía cómo pesar. Mira, mi padre fue el que yo creo que de repente lo heredé de mi papá.
Entrevistante: Si el que dio el ejemplo de trabajar.
María García: De eso sí, de trabajar fueron ellos, mis padres, los dos. Porque desde los ocho o diez años en México, a esa edad ya te ponían a trabajar a lo que sea, aunque sea algo chiquito; a desgranar maíz, a cuidar los puerquitos, a cuidar a los niños, a lavar pañales. Desde esa edad te enseñan. Y yo siempre he dicho que, gracias a eso, uno es lo que es, porque desde chiquito lo enseñan a uno trabajar.
Entrevistante: Sí. Y es muy hermoso que traigamos eso tan arraigado. Y que lo traigamos para beneficio de esta comunidad. Somos una comunidad trabajadora.
María García: Otra cosa que siempre recuerdo que mi papá nos decía era que tenemos que ser leales y que nunca, nunca transar a la gente. Tiene que ser bien derecho decía él. Sí, y pues eso. Yo le digo a mis hijos: “tienen que ser bien derecho porque no puedes andar transando a la gente después que agarras reputación de que tú andas transando”, les dije, ¿no? Y yo luego les digo a mis clientes: “yo prefiero equivocarme, darles de más que darles de menos.”
Entrevistante: Claro. Y pues por eso el resultado de tantos años de su tienda y el éxito que ha tenido, ¿verdad?
María García: Sí luego yo como los sábados y domingos que viene bastante gente, yo me pregunto: “Wow, es tanta gente. ¿De dónde sale tanta gente?” Porque cuando vienen unos, vienen otros y así, siempre. Veo que tengo clientes que conozco desde hace como 28 años, desde que yo empecé con mi tienda de ropa en el 93. Y después en el 98 fue lo que empezamos con lo de comida y ya mi hija ya está grande, Leti empezó. Tengo una hija que tiene 39 y ella empezó a vender conmigo cuando tenía diez. Entonces por eso es fácil para mí decir que son 29 años en realidad los que yo tengo vendiendo, en negocio, aquí en Madison, porque yo me acuerdo de que ella tenía diez años. Es como recuerdo que, que es bastante tiempo ya.
Entrevistante: ¿Qué consejo le podría dar a alguien que tiene la iniciativa de tener un negocio en Madison?
María García: Sinceramente, yo les diría que, que, si tienen hijos chiquitos, si no tienen buen apoyo familiar, que les ayude con los niñitos, que se esperen un poquito hasta que sus hijos ya estén grandecitos, porque sí los descuida uno. Y este es su único ¿Cómo se dice, regret? El único arrepentimiento que yo sí tengo es que yo empecé cuando mis hijos eran chiquitos y pues yo era madre soltera y pues sí los descuidé a mis hijos y es el único, el único remordimiento que luego a veces sí me da. Pero mi madre me dice: “hija, no te arrepientas tú de nada. Lo que hiciste lo tuviste que hacer porque tenías que sacar a tus niños adelante y no había de otra forma. Y pues tú hiciste lo mejor que hiciste, y no lo hiciste por andar en la vagancia.” Es lo que mi mamá me dice siempre, porque luego yo le digo: “no, mi hija, no te arrepientas”, y ya. Y eso pues a veces ya me hace sentir mejor.
Entrevistante: Y me imagino que también sus hijos se dan cuenta, ¿no?
María García: Ahora. Ahora en día sí, ya que están grandes, sí. Pero sí, si tienen hijos chiquitos que tal vez se puedan esperar un poquito o, o si tienen buen apoyo de los, de los abuelitos o alguien que se los cuide, porque sí, a veces sí los descuida uno por andar trabajando, porque una vez que te metes en un negocio no hay vuelta atrás. O sea, ahí está la tienda, la tienes que abrir. Ya y luego yo a veces llego tarde, que cinco minutos tarde, y la gente ya está esperándome afuera. Y luego les digo, yo siempre he dicho que no tengo un jefe, tengo muchos, que son mis clientes, que me regañan si llego tarde. “¿Y por qué llega tarde a su negocio?” Y le digo: “Sorry.” Le digo: “ustedes son mis, mis clientes, mis jefes, me regañan.” Es bonito y yo pienso que el día que yo deje de trabajar aquí en la tienda, pues pienso que me voy a aburrir por un tiempo. Pero yo pienso que dejarla no, probablemente venga en ratos aquí nomás a fastidiar. Como digo, yo conozco un señor en Chicago que ya está viejito y allí lo tienen sentadito y le pagan porque esté ahí, porque los clientes llegan y lo quieren ver. Sí. Entonces, de repente tiene que hacer lo mismo conmigo.
Entrevistante: Muchísimas gracias por su tiempo.
María García: De nada.
Entrevistante: Y por esta entrevista. Esperemos queden en los archivos de la biblioteca de Madison, esta historia grabada para todas las generaciones y para que se recuerde siempre, la huella que usted ha dejado en nuestra comunidad.
María García: Oh, gracias.
INDEX
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
[00:01:50] STARTING THE BUSINESS
[00:04:50] CHALLENGES AND SUCCESSES OF BEING IN BUSINESS FOR 20 YEARS
[00:07:40] CURRENT BUSINESS CLIMATE AND FUTURE
[00:09:10] STORE THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, PRESENT AND FUTURE
[00:14:00] BUSINESS AND FAMILY THROUGHOUT THE GENERATIONS
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
Interviewer: Hi. My name is Marisol and today is Tuesday, December 13, 2022. We are here with Mrs. Maria Garcia, partner of the Marimar store on Park Street, recording a story for the Madison Public Library for the Living Stories project. Now I'm going to allow our guest to introduce herself.
María García: Hello, my name is Maria Garcia, and I am Mexican. I came to the United States when I was 15 years old. I came to Madison when I was 17 and here, I have lived in this beautiful town that I love and well, here we are. I am a partner of Marimar Market.
Interviewer: Could we start this conversation talking about your connection with our topic, which is the growth of Latino businesses in Madison?
María García: Well it has been very nice. I have 22 years with the Marimar store and this little store from day one has been a very good store. This store was the support of other failed businesses that we had in the past and, and it always held up. And, here we are still after 22 years and now it's better than ever. 2022 we are better than ever thanks to the community of Madison, Latino community and nowadays we are not only Latinos, there are different ethnic races that come here to the store.
[00:01:50] STARTING THE BUSINESS
Interviewer: All right! Could you tell us the story of how, when and why you started your business?
María García: Well, with a lot of work. This little store... Well, we started in another store that wa on. Odana Road. It was a food store, it was on Odana Road 1998. And that store we sold it in 2005. We sold it to what are now "Los Gemelos". And this store here on Park Street we opened it in September 2000.We opened it because there was a need for one. There was a need for a store that had Mexican products. At that time there was only one Mexican store, it was a tiny little store that was on Milwaukee Street that was called "la Mexicana del Senor Jose Banuelos". I had at that time a clothing store on Odana Road, and. I saw how at that time a lot of people came from Sauk City. They would go to a store still exists, it's a little Asian store, but it sold and sells Mexican products. And I watched how they would come to Madison, first go to the little Asian store to buy their "tortillas" and then they would go with me to buy their CDs. And that gave me the idea of why not open a food store that would be closer to the people from Sauk City, from Baraboo, who came here to Madison a lot. That's where the idea was born. And that was in 1998. And then in 2000 it was, 2000 it was here on Park Street.
Interviewer: How did Madison and the Latino community look like at the beginning of your business?
María García: It looked pretty well. I could say that my businesses that I have had, which were several, all the time I did well. But some of them were a matter of the fact that we grew very fast and a little bit messy, and there came a time when we could not handle it all, with so many businesses. We had to close some of them, others we sold, but at the end of the day we were left with this store here on Park Street and, as I said, it was a good store from day one and it continues to be a very good store.
[00:04:50] CHALLENGES AND SUCCESSES OF BEING IN BUSINESS FOR 20 YEARS
Interviewer: What have been the challenges you have had to overcome to support your business for more than 20 years?
María García: Many. To mention a few, COVID was tough and trying to.... Well, no, not trying. We were open all the time, but that was a tough one. But it was good at the same time because COVID, our store, I don't know for what reason, it got better and it's still going pretty well. It improved quite a bit. Yes, I think it was because at that time, let's say 2021, more like 2020, when they closed the restaurants. This little store being essential, I was never told at any time that I could not work in the kitchen. So, since there were not many options, a lot of people started to come here. A lot of people who didn't know our cuisine started to come here and many of them liked it and stayed and it's very good nowadays.
Interviewer: How about, the workers? Did you start with restaurant or with the grocery store?
María García: No, we started with a grocery store and the cooking was later and I have always said, and I say it publicly, that I am blessed, I have very good workers and I thank God and my workers who have always supported me.
Interviewer: This one, and, for example, if people want specific things from Mexico, have they come to ask you: "hey ma'am, we need molcajetes (mortar and pestle) or tortilleros (tortilla warmers), or little clay pots, tamale pots," Is it a challenge for you to bring those kinds of things?
María García: No, nowadays all that is easy for us because we know many suppliers. Over the years, you get to know them, and the suppliers get to know you. That is not difficult to find nowadays.
Interviewer: But it was at the start.
María García: No, not a lot. No, we always, almost always have. There are some things that sometimes people do ask us that we can't get, but most of the basic things we do get.
[00:07:40] CURRENT BUSINESS CLIMATE AND FUTURE
Interviewer: How do you see the future of Latino sibling businesses?
María García: I think it is good. It is very strong, because nowadays there are many little stores and I think that most of them are doing well and there is business for everybody.
Interviewer: Yes, there's a very large variety of Latino businesses in Madison from stores, bakeries....
María García: Yeah.
Interviewer: And restaurants. And you as a business owner, how do you see the future of Madison, and Latinos? Are you proud to see that there's so much variety, that there's so many people and that it is contributing to the community.
María García: Oh, yes. It's a Hispanic pride. And it is not easy. I tell you for the other store owners, yes, there are challenges, it's long hours, sometimes you don't have workers, but once you're in this, you have to go ahead. And Madison is, I would say a rich city, because here all the stores sell, and we are all doing well. Yeah, and I think Madison is a good, good city. I love Madison here.
Interviewer: Is there anything else that you would like to add that we haven’t mentioned?
[00:09:10] STORE THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, PRESENT AND FUTURE
María García: I just want to thank all the people who will one day listen to me. The Latino people in Madison who have contributed to my store and from the bottom of my heart I want to thank all those people who have supported me for years and years. I have customers that I've known for 25, 30 years. All of a sudden, they come down here and I tell them, “Wow, how long without seeing you." And I love seeing them. And I think someday when I don't have the store that's what I'm going to miss, the people. I know a lot of very nice people.
Interviewer: And what is the future of Marimar? Is it going to pass from generation to generation?
María García: Well, that is the idea. But let's see. Well like my children, like the little one who grew up here, it's sometimes like they have seen everything and sometimes it discourages them. A lot of work every day, but I think we are going to be here for a long time.
Interviewer: Could you tell us about the people who can, can listen to this, this recording and who are interested in knowing what the Marimar store offers.
María García: Oh yes, It's a pretty complete little store. We have a butcher shop. We have groceries, fresh vegetables. We have an excellent kitchen. We sell fresh tortillas on Saturdays and Sundays. We do food for events. On Saturdays and Sundays we have, I call it the star of Marimar, which is our delicious carnitas and lamb barbacoa, beef barbacoa, tamales. And quesadillas: squash blossom, huitlacoche, potatoes with chorizo, chicken; many different tacos.Whenever you want to come, we are looking forward to seeing you here.
Interviewer: When people ask me where to eat delicious, authentic food, I always recommend Marimar.
María García: Oh, thank you. But I want to add something. I want to say that I am not the only one and I do not want people to think that all the credits, merits and sacrifices have been only mine. There is another person that nowadays I value very much, and he is my colleague, partner, Martin Mora. I have always said, now more than before I have to say it, that without him I would not have the store because he does, he provides a lot of support for the store. That's all.
Interviewer: Thank you very much for your time and for sharing your story with us. It's very valuable to know that for more than 20 years this Latino business has prevailed in our community and it's just being in the middle of a neighborhood surrounded by Latin people and diversity.
María García: It is in a very good location because it is not too far from the people in the West, it is not too far from the people in the East.And it's close to the highway. So, it is in a very good place and here we are still working hard after 22 years, our birthday is in September. When we turned 21, which was last year, the COVID thing was even harder, and I said to Martin: "Come on, let's celebrate that she is of legal age, she is already 21". And I told him: "How are we going to celebrate with the COVID?" Also, when we turned 15, I told him: "Let's make her a quinceanera". And he comes to me and says: "to whom?" And well, to the store. And I tell you no, we haven't done anything because it would mean shutting down for a day, the whole day to have a big party, maybe out there. Maybe next summer we'll get the courage and we'll do it and then. It's going to be almost 23 by now, and I'm probably going to be around.
And still in the mornings I am surprised. I don't know where I get so much energy from, because I get up and then, and then, what do I have to do today? I make my lists a day before and I see them: okay, first things first and by priorities. And then the next day another list. And what I missed today I add to tomorrow's list and so on. There.
Interviewer: Yes. It has definitely been a lifestyle, having a business.
María García: Yes. Yes.
[00:14:00] BUSINESS AND FAMILY THROUGHOUT THE GENERATIONS
Interviewer: And did you have, like, anyone before in your family, in your household that had a business?
María García: My father. My little old man who just passed away in June of this year, 2022, died of COVID, age 92.
María García: And I saw him in May and always, when he looked at me, he asked me: "And how is your business going?" And well, funny thing, because there are nine of us. Well, ten because my dad raised a grandson, we would be ten. And to all my siblings, more my siblings, I think he told them that they had to start businesses, that business was good and nobody, nobody listened to him. And when he heard about me that I had the store and he came several times here to Madison and he would say to me, " Gee," he would say. "The one I didn't tell to do it is the one that did it." Yeah. And when I was about ten years old, I think, I used to see my dad, he always liked to do business and he had a little store there in the house. And I didn't like it, I didn't like to help him because I didn't know how to weigh. Look, my father was the one.. I think I suddenly inherited it from my father.
Interviewer: Yes… who set an example ff working.
María García: Of working. Yes, that's what they did, they worked, my parents, both of them. Because from the age of eight or ten years old in Mexico, at that age they already put you to work in anything, even if it is something small; to shuck corn, to take care of the pigs, to take care of the children, to wash diapers. From that age they teach you. And I have always said that thanks to that, you are what you are, because they teach you to work from a very young age.
Interviewer: Yes. And it's so beautiful that we bring that so deeply rooted and that we bring it to for the benefit of our community. We’re a hard-working community.
María García: Another thing I always remember my dad telling us was that we have to be loyal and never, ever cheat people. It has to be very honest, he used to say and so that's it. I told my children: "you have to be honest because you can't go around cheating people, then you get a reputation for cheating", I told them, right? And then I tell my clients: "I prefer to be wrong, to give you more than to give you less".
Interviewer: And that’s, well, the result of so many years of your store and the success you have had, right?
María García: Yes, like on Saturdays and Sundays when a lot of people come, I ask myself: "Wow, there are so many people. Where are all these people coming from?" Because when some people come, some other people come and so on, always. I see that I have clients that I have known for about 28 years, since I started with my clothing store in '9.3 I started with my clothing store and then in '98 we started with the food business and now my daughter, she's all grown up. Leti started. I have a daughter who is 39 and she started selling with me when she was ten. So that's why it's easy for me to say that it's actually 29 years that I've been selling, in business here in Madison, because I remember that she was ten years old. It's like I remember that that's quite a while now.
Interviewer: What piece of advice would you give to someone that has the initiative to start a business in Madison?
María García: Honestly, I would tell them that, if they have small children, if, if they do not have good family support, to help them with the little ones, to wait a little bit until their children are grown up, because yes. you do forget about them. And. this is your only regret. The only regret I have is that I started when my children were little and I was a single mother and I didn't really take care of my children and that's the only, the only regret that I sometimes have. But my mother tells me: "daughter, don't regret anything. What you did you had to do it because you had to take care of your children and there was no other way. And you did the best you could, and you didn't do it because you were lazy". That's what my mom always tells me, because then I tell her: "No, my daughter, don't regret it", and that's it. And that sometimes makes me feel better.
Interviewer: And I imagine that your sons also notice that, right?
María García: Nowadays, yes, now that they are older, yes. But yes, if they have small children, maybe they can wait a little bit or, or if they have good support from their grandparents or someone to take care of them, because yes, sometimes you neglect them because you are working, because once you get into a business there is no turning back. I mean, there is the store, you have to open it. And then sometimes I arrive late, five minutes late, and people are already waiting for me outside. And then I tell them, I have always said that I don't have a boss, I have many, who are my customers, who nag me if I am late. "And why are you late for your business?" And I tell them, "Sorry." I tell them, "You are my, my customers, my bosses, you nag me."
It's nice, and I think that the day I stop working here in the store, well, I think I'm going to get bored for a while, but I think that leaving it, no, I'll probably come here at times just to be annoying. I tell you, I know a man in Chicago who is already old, and they have him sitting there and they pay him because he is there, because the clients come and want to see him. They want to see him. Yes. So, suddenly they’ll have to do the same with me.
Interviewer: Thank you so much for your time.
María García: You’re welcome.
Interviewer: And for this interview. We hope that it will remain in the files of the Madison library, this story recorded for all generations and to remember forever the mark you have left on our community.
María García: Oh, thank you.
Identificante: madmex-004
Nombre narrador: Mónica Cliff
Nombre entrevistante Claudia González
Fecha de la entrevista: 12/17/2022
ÍNDICE
[00:00:00] INTRODUCCIÓN
[00:03:10] BUSCANDO OPORTUNIDADES DE TEATRO EN MADISON
[00:08:15] CRECIENDO CON LAS ARTES, FALTA DE PRESENCIA ARTÍSTICA LATINA EN MADISON
[00:14:50] FOMENTANDO RELACIONES E IMPORTANCIA DE LAS ARTES
[00:18:25] DESAFÍOS PARA INICIAR UN NEGOCIO CREATIVO
[00:24:55] NOMBRE Y CONCEPTO DEL NEGOCIO
[00:26:50] EVOLUCIÓN DEL NEGOCIO
[00:30:50] DIFICULTADES Y DIFERENCIAS DE HACER TEATRO EN ESTADOS UNIDOS
[00:34:25] METAS A FUTURO
[COMIENZO DE LA GRABACIÓN]
[00:00:00] INTRODUCCIÓN
Entrevistante: Hola, mi nombre es Claudia González. Hoy es sábado 17 de diciembre del 2022. Estamos aquí con Mónica Cliff, dueña de Inventiva Works, grabando una historia para la biblioteca pública de Madison para el proyecto de Historias Vivas. Ahora voy a permitirle a nuestra narradora que se presente.
Mónica Cliff: Hola, muchas gracias por la invitación. Mi nombre es Mónica Cliff y soy originaria de México, de Zacatepec, Morelos, y soy una artista. Entonces he vivido aquí en Madison aproximadamente unos 20 años y mi negocio Inventiva Works tiene exactamente dos años de nacimiento, como negocio enfocado en educación de arte y creatividad. Pero me he dedicado desde que llegué a Madison aquí a las artes, a trabajar con otras compañías.
Entrevistante: Mónica, ¿Podrías contarnos tu historia? Oh, perdón. No. ¿Podríamos empezar esta conversación hablando acerca de tu conexión con nuestro tema, el cual es el crecimiento de los negocios latinos en Madison?
Mónica Cliff: Bueno, mi negocio es muy chiquito. Todavía tiene dos años, como lo mencioné. Y creo que durante estos dos años me he dado cuenta de las dificultades de ser un negocio, pues latino, porque no es nada más un negocio latino el que es dueño del negocio. O sea que si tú eres latino ya por eso es un… pero, porque justamente la misión y la visión del negocio está enfocado en la comunidad latina, en servir a la comunidad latina y satisfacer necesidades no cubiertas. Durante los años que he estado yo aquí, repito como 20 años, no he visto que existan otras organizaciones que se hayan enfocado en esto, y eso fue la parte que a mí me motivó a decir: pues aquí estoy, observo esto y creo que es parte también de mi propósito como como artista, como persona, pues poner mi granito de arena en esta área. Y en cuestión de crecimiento sí he visto una consistencia. Quiero enfatizar que el negocio fue fundado en el 2020, o sea, en medio de una pandemia, entonces ha sido de alguna manera un reto adicional que cualquier otro negocio pueda tener. Pero de alguna manera las cosas han ido progresando, ha habido un crecimiento y ha habido una consistencia. No sé si responde a tu pregunta.
[00:03:10] BUSCANDO OPORTUNIDADES DE TEATRO EN MADISON
Entrevistante: Sí. ¿Puedes contarnos tu historia de cómo y cuándo llegaste a Madison y tu historia de trabajo como artista latina?
Mónica Cliff: Yo llegué a Madison porque justamente mi exesposo es de Madison. Realmente no hubiera estado aquí de otra manera. Es muy frío. Pero llegué aquí porque él y su familia son originarios de aquí, entonces, pues queríamos formar una familia. Y yo soy egresada de la Escuela Nacional de Teatro en México, de Bellas Artes, en la licenciatura de Escenografía, y yo desde que llegué inmediatamente busqué a una compañía de teatro hispana aquí y me dijeron no existe.
Toqué puertas aquí y allá en donde existían las organizaciones de teatro comunitario de del área, y en ese entonces, cuando yo llegué estaba nada más el Children's Theater of Madison, que estaba también como que en una bifurcación porque tenían como problemas económicos, no sabían si se iba a ir a la bancarrota. Acababan de tener una nueva artista, directora artística que habían nominado. Entonces había como mucha incertidumbre para esa organización y estaba la otra a la que después, un año después, también se fue a la bancarrota, fue el Madison Theater Repertory (sic) que también era una de las compañías profesionales más fuertes. Y pues no, la verdad no duró. Desde que yo llegué al año cerraron sus puertas. Y ya desde ahí yo tuve la oportunidad de entablar una conexión con la compañía de teatro de niños de aquí de Madison, haciendo proyectos como para ellos.
Nunca he trabajado como empleada de alguna de las organizaciones. Siempre ha sido una manera de como le dicen, de Contractor, de freelance. Y es por proyecto ha sido mi experiencia en general, ha sido pues trabajar así, de esa manera, con varias compañías profesionales e inclusive de las escuelas preparatorias que muchas veces tienen un club de teatro haciendo diseño, como de vestuario, de títeres, de escenografía, esta utilería.
Añoraba como esa parte de que no teníamos algo centrado en nuestra comunidad, somos un pueblo en México que nos gusta mucho el entretenimiento nos gusta mucho esto de que en las escuelas se hacen los bailables, los eventos y somos como mitoteros, pero nos encanta esta cosa de “a ver, va a salir mi hijo” y aquí no, realmente no existía.
Entonces las organizaciones con las que yo pude colaborar pues también no tenían como por muchos años. Ahorita han cambiado desde el 2020, hay que recalcar eso que se abrió como un espacio un poquito más de equidad, de inclusividad, pero realmente antes si tú ves la historia de las obras de teatro que se hacían, del elenco que se escogía, pues eran primordialmente historias de teatro de la comunidad blanca. La mayoría de los participantes en esos shows eran blancos, era muy muy rara la vez que existía como una inclusividad dentro de la cuestión cultural, o que dijeran “vamos a vamos a escoger una obra de teatro que hable sobre esta otra comunidad”. Y también cabe mencionar que primordialmente las organizaciones de arte en nuestra área en Madison Dane County, el liderazgo es usualmente por personas blancas, Entonces si existe esta parte que por mucho tiempo se han hecho las cosas así y no ha habido como desde nuestra comunidad otras alternativas, otras maneras de promover, de fomentar ejercicios artísticos y creativos en nuestra comunidad, que sean cercanos a nuestras historias, que sean relevantes para nosotros y que de alguna manera ayuden también a preservar nuestro lenguaje, nuestras tradiciones, nuestra cultura y a crear ese orgullo de identidad que pusimos. Las artes son una excelente manera de crear eso. Entonces pues no, no sé si me expandió, si me fui por otro lado, pero…
[00:08:15] CRECIENDO CON LAS ARTES, FALTA DE PRESENCIA ARTÍSTICA LATINA EN MADISON
Entrevistante: No, está muy bien, gracias. ¿Qué fue lo que te inspiró para iniciar tu negocio en las artes? Ya hablaste un poquito.
Mónica Cliff: Un poquito. Desde chiquita tuve una vocación muy fuerte por las artes. Yo desde que estaba en el kínder yo ya sabía Mis amigos que me conocen de toda la vida me dicen “es que yo desde que te conocí en el kínder, tú ya te veías perfilada para esto”. Y yo como les mencioné, soy de Zacatepec, Morelos es un pueblo chico, no es provincia, no es una ciudad, no tenemos hasta la fecha 2022 una casa de arte y cultura en ese pueblo. Se me hace increíble porque esas necesidades creativas todos las tenemos. No necesitas decir que te vas a dedicar a eso, pero es una muy buena manera para contactar contigo, para conectar con otros.
Entonces yo desde chica sí tenía mucha de esa hambre de más actividades artísticas. Afortunadamente mis papás tuvieron la capacidad y el deseo de apoyarme y de decir pues aquí no hay, pero en Cuernavaca que está como a 45 minutos de donde vivimos, existen los cursos y te vamos a llevar a clases allá. Y eso fue lo que hicieron desde chiquita. Hubo un curso de verano ahí en Bellas Artes, en Cuernavaca, que es la capital del estado de Morelos y o sea nada más literal, me ponían así en el autobús y te bajas aquí en la terminal de Cuernavaca y agarras la ruta y te bajas en esa esquina y cruzas la calle y ahí está el centro de las artes. Entonces ya yo me iba solita. Ese era mi nivel de motivación. Yo tenía diez años y me iba a ir solita. Y ellos también sí, me apoyaron por varios años a tomar clases de pintura al óleo con un artista profesional y eran clases privadas. Todas las semanas iba yo a, pues, a dedicarme a entender, a aprender el arte de la pintura al óleo. Entonces, ya desde chica yo ya tenía ese deseo, esa inclinación y yo ya veía esa necesidad que tienen muchas comunidades, como en la mía, en la que yo nací, pues no teníamos. Hasta la fecha que yo sepa todavía no existe.
Y pienso que cuando yo llegué a Madison, aunque es una ciudad más grande y una vez más la capital del de del estado de Wisconsin, sí se me hizo raro que no existiera una presencia artística y creativa de la comunidad latina hispana, ¿no? aquí, pero sí la hay en otros, en otras ciudades, en Milwaukee y si existe, si la hay en Kenosha, porque la población latina es mayor. Creo que aquí, si no mal recuerdo, tenemos un 7% Dane County de comunidad hispana latina. Yo creo que es un poquito más, pero aun así no estamos hablando de suficiente población como para que no existan esos recursos, se me hace de alguna manera..No sé, no lo puedo creer que no exista.
Y para mí esa fue una motivación, decir pues yo voy a hacer desde lo que yo puedo, desde mis capacidades iniciar algo y pues en chiquito fue así como convocar. ¿Que fue lo primero que hice? Hacer clases de teatro y cabe mencionar que fueron en línea por la pandemia. El teatro usualmente no se hace así, y era como una barrera, una dificultad. Y muchas veces a mí me decían, porque antes de que yo hiciera eso hice varias investigaciones y entrevistas a los líderes de entre las organizaciones de las artes, organizaciones latinas y mucho de lo que yo escuchaba que decían es que no existe porque no hay interés de la comunidad, es que la comunidad esto no es lo que le interesa. Entonces yo decía pues vamos a ver, lo voy a hacer. Si no existe el interés, pues ya no existe. Pero lo otro es que también hay que considerar que el interés no es algo así como de “ah se abre una oportunidad, todos van a saltar” Yo no lo veo así. Muchas veces tienes que entender que hay hábitos que no se forman de la noche a la mañana y que puedes tener un interés, pero también tienes barreras como comunidad para acceder a esas oportunidades. Puede ser tiempo, puede ser recursos económicos, puede ser transporte, o sea que uno no sabe. Entonces es parte de, yo creo que apostarle a que es una necesidad humana y que de alguna manera se van a ir creando los puentes de acceso a esas oportunidades, que no van a suceder así inmediatamente. Pero conforme vayas conociendo el terreno de lo que estás manejando, las puedes ir creando, cocreando con la comunidad, porque tú no eres el que sabe todas las respuestas también escucha lo que la gente quiere. Hazlo con ellos. Para mí es como una danza. Esto lo estamos cocreando. Porque al final es algo que se va a formar y pues uno no es inmortal, pero esperas que esto sea un precedente para las siguientes generaciones también, Entonces sí es principalmente mi objetivo crear más espacios creativos.
[00:14:50] FOMENTANDO RELACIONES E IMPORTANCIA DE LAS ARTES
Entrevistante: Y hablemos un poquito de cuánto tiempo llevas trabajando en tu proyecto. ¿Pero hay algo acerca de eso que te gustaría agregar del tiempo que llevas trabajando en este proyecto?
Mónica Cliff: ¿Bueno o malo? Ha habido de todo. En general te puedo decir que mi experiencia ha sido primordialmente positiva. Ha excedido mis expectativas, incluso. Esto es algo que no he hecho de tiempo completo porque tengo otro empleo de tiempo completo. Y esto ha un proyecto que ha ido creciendo de una manera más orgánica. Me encantaría que se hiciera más, tengo expectativas, e ilusiones, y sueños, y propósitos para que sigamos creciendo esto. Pero creo que de alguna manera ha sido mucho aprendizaje, navegando el sistema. El sistema pues de negocios, navegando relaciones, relaciones con otras organizaciones, con otros líderes. A lo que me enfoco es a las relaciones con las personas que son participantes. Para mí esa es la relación principal de las personas que realmente quieren estar aquí, las personas que creen en esto. Entonces esa es la relación en la que más me enfoco más allá de lo demás. Creo que lo agradezco si es algo que apoya la iniciativa o que apoya de alguna manera esta propuesta que estamos haciendo aquí, pero tiene que ser congruente con la misión.
No quiero que se sacrifique la esencia de lo que es y la esencia para mí, la misión es despertar este gusto, esta pasión por la creatividad, por las artes. Pues yo empecé con niños, pero ya después con los mismos adultos decían “yo también quiero.” Con la comunidad que se sienta que pueden recibir una forma adicional de complementar el bienestar humano. Yo así lo veo, no es la llave, es una pieza más que te permite tener este bienestar. Y los seres humanos somos por naturaleza creativos. Siempre me encanta decir que si conocemos historia es porque algún creativo dejó plasmado una imagen en una cueva de un búfalo, que alguien lo estaba cazando, o esculturas o pinturas, o alguien escribió un poema, una historia, una novela. Y podemos saber de lo que sucedió antes por las artes. Realmente las artes juegan ese papel tan crucial en cómo nosotros percibimos nuestra realidad.
[00:18:25] DESAFÍOS PARA INICIAR UN NEGOCIO CREATIVO
Entrevistante: ¿Cuáles han sido los desafíos a los que te has tenido que enfrentar?
Mónica Cliff: Durante estos dos años, hay diferentes desafíos. El primero fue adaptar la realidad que teníamos de la pandemia al objetivo. El objetivo de hacer un llamado, una convocatoria y de ver si las personas de la comunidad iban de alguna manera responder y a seguir. Porque muchas veces tu respondes, dices me inscribo y puede ser que ya después no sigas. Y algo que necesitamos en las artes y en todo en general, incluso en el deporte, hagas lo que lo que hagas es la consistencia. Es importante porque no es que ves un resultado en una sesión. No puedes armar, por ejemplo, en el caso del teatro, una producción, una puesta en escena con dos sesiones, con tres sesiones, toma mucho tiempo, es mucho ensayo. Del 100% el 75% es trabajo fuera de y el 25% es la puesta en escena. Todo eso es lo que necesitas hacer para poder llegar a ese objetivo. Y lo otro es navegar el sistema legal, se necesitaba entender toda esta parte. Una vez que nosotros pudimos tener luz verde para poder reunirnos en persona aún con cubrebocas, encontrar espacios.
Porque en el teatro necesitas espacios para ensayar y encontrar espacios que también no sean muy caros y también como financiar proyectos de esta magnitud. Que la gente que quiera participar tenga las formas de participar, que tenga el tiempo aunque sea para ir a dejar y recoger a sus hijos para los ensayos. Que tenga de alguna manera la disponibilidad para practicar con sus hijos en casa para decir “a ver, vamos a hacer esto”
Esto se arma siempre como en conjunto. No es nada más lo que se hace en las clases, sino que también se necesita trabajo extra y demás. Tener gente que apoye, aunque no sea parte de. Personas dentro de la comunidad que no quieran aprovecharse de la situación, que esa es la otra cosa. Que quieran apoyar, pero que no de alguna manera quieran agarrar el agua para su molino. Esa es una situación que yo me di cuenta de que existía. Como hacer una manera de cambiar o de jalar energía como comunidad.Ya existe el interés ahora lo voy a jalar para mi proyecto.
Pienso que eso es importante porque yo veo este tipo de iniciativas como pequeñas semillitas que se van plantando y va brotando la florecita, la plantita y no quieras como que trasplantarla para tu jardín. Alguien que realmente auténticamente quiere ayudar, dices pues qué más ayuda, le echo abono, le echo agua para que esta iniciativa siga creciendo en donde nació Y no realmente querer una vez más jalar ese trabajo para una organización más grande que realmente nunca invirtió o nunca ni siquiera le apostó a la iniciativa.
Yo diría que eso es muy importante, que se dé el espacio, el respeto y si quieres el apoyo a las iniciativas originales de artistas que son individuales, que no tienen el peso ni la trayectoria de no sé cuántas décadas, de estar en el poder. Pero que realmente tengamos esa apertura de decir que la diversidad realmente existe dentro del terreno en donde tenemos que dejar que existan otras plantitas de otros tamaños que eventualmente van a crecer. Y que existen por las condiciones del terreno en donde se dieron. Es una metáfora, pero sí creo que es importante que de alguna manera lo reflexionemos.
Si vas a apoyar, apoya desde donde está sucediendo la idea. Y no tratar de que eso suceda como en el mundo corporativo. Existen los startups, las pequeñas empresas y ya nada más listas para que las compre el tiburón más grande, el pez más gordo. Entonces creo que una de las razones por las que funcionan es porque están en un terreno en donde las condiciones se dieron y ya después que son adquiridas las microempresas ya no tienen ese mismo poder o ese mismo auge.
[00:24:55] NOMBRE Y CONCEPTO DEL NEGOCIO
Entrevistante: Nos gustaría saber cuál es el origen de tu negocio. El nombre de tu negocio. Perdón. Nos gustaría saber cuál es el origen del nombre de tu negocio.
Mónica Cliff: Pues se llama Inventiva Works. Inventiva es la palabra en español de inventive, es un sinónimo de creatividad. Me gustó porque yo desde chiquita mi papá siempre me decía que yo era muy inventiva. Me decía es que tú siempre estás inventando, creando. Y también yo quería integrar una palabra en español y una palabra en inglés e inventiva es el femenino. Eso es lo otro que también se me hace importante la presencia de la energía femenina en una organización. Pero si es una invitación, no necesariamente a una creación de bellas artes. No necesariamente tiene que ser formal. Pero es lúdico, es como un juego, como inventar, como crear. No tiene que ser rígido, no es una academia. No estamos hablando de un estudio como un conservatorio de artes. Yo creo que las artes tienen que ser mucho más accesibles que esa rigidez de un conservatorio de artes. Y eso es a lo que yo aspiro. A crear, que sea accesible, que sea súper entretenido, que la gente al final diga “quiero regresar”. Se sintió tan bien que esto “no sé por qué no lo había hecho antes”. Eso es principalmente el origen.
[00:26:50] EVOLUCIÓN DEL NEGOCIO
Entrevistante: ¿Podrías contarnos cómo ha evolucionado tu negocio desde sus inicios hasta ahora?
Mónica Cliff: Pues ha sido dos años. Siento que ha habido un crecimiento consistente y orgánico. Mucho. Empezó desde la curiosidad, desde no sé si existe el interés para esto. Una vez más comenzamos con las clases de teatro virtual, a principios de enero. Después, en el verano, ya teníamos nuestro grupo donde nos pudimos a juntar en persona con cubrebocas y todo. Pero tuvimos la oportunidad de hacer nuestra primera puesta en escena con niños. Y en ese verano también fue que dije: “vamos a ver sí existe también el interés en clases de arte”, de artes plásticas, principalmente de pintura. Y empezó también con un grupo de verano de niños y ya desde ahí ha sido exponencial. Empezó con un taller chiquito de poquitas sesiones.
Yo principalmente hacía mis propuestas artísticas desde lo que yo observaba y desde lo que yo creía. Y cuando digo “desde lo que yo observaba” me refiero a que yo tengo dos hijos. Soy mamá y a mis hijos yo los he metido en muchas clases de arte, en muchas actividades de verano y demás ¿Y qué es lo que yo observaba? ¿Querían regresar o no querían regresar? ¿Estaban involucrados o no estaban involucrados? ¿Cuánto tiempo realmente era el que se estaba? ¿Cuál era el objetivo? ¿Nada más que pasaran el tiempo ahí mientras uno trabaja, o qué onda? Entonces todo eso yo lo tomaba en cuenta para crear un servicio que fuera de valor para los participantes, que en el principio eran niños primordialmente, pero para las familias también. De qué manera los papás se sentían con esta tranquilidad de que sus hijos iban a estar en un ambiente seguro, en un ambiente donde ellos podían reforzar esta parte de su autoestima y su identidad cultural.
Todas las clases son en español. Hablamos sobre artistas, también obras de artistas latinoamericanos. Después también incluí manualidades y artesanías de nuestras culturas. Pienso que eso es algo que yo traté de poner atención y después escuchaba lo que me decían los demás, que me decían los niños ¿Por qué no haces una clase de esto? Entonces ya lo ponía como nota mental “tengo que hacer una clase de esto.” Otra vez los papás me decían “Ay, estaría bien que hiciera esto”. Entonces tratar de hacer ese ejercicio de poder integrar todas las voces en algo que yo también me divierto, esto es experimental para mí. Trato de ver durante cada sesión que podría haber sido mejor, que pude haber yo hecho diferente o de qué otra manera puedo lograr el entendimiento, la comprensión de una técnica. Entonces yo así lo estoy tomando, de un taller a la vez y de ahí ha ido creciendo. Ha sido para mí muy satisfactorio.
[00:30:50] DIFICULTADES Y DIFERENCIAS DE HACER TEATRO EN ESTADOS UNIDOS
Mónica Cliff: Me han preguntado mucho sobre las clases de teatro tiene que ver con que el mayor obstáculo es la falta de espacio. Para hacer teatro es más inversión de tiempo, más inversión en general de recursos. Entonces, he estado pensando cómo es que podemos de alguna manera hacer posible más. Valiéndonos de como somos en nuestros países. En México realmente las artes y la cultura no están muy apoyados tampoco allá. Siempre hay recortes de presupuesto y lo primero que recortan es arte y cultura. Entonces en México somos muy lo que le dicen aquí en Estados Unidos resourceful.
Como que nos las ingeniamos, hacemos con lo poquito que hay. Y a veces, aunque no tengas acceso a un teatro, pues hay teatro de la calle, hay teatro de diferentes tipos que de alguna manera vas creando. Por ejemplo cuando estaba en la Escuela de Teatro formé una compañía de teatro con los mismos estudiantes de la escuela de actuación y demás. Hacíamos teatro ambulante, íbamos a las escuelas a darlas. Entonces eventualmente podemos hacer una obra en uno de los teatros, fue en el Teatro Orientación. Pero yo creo que no debe de ser un limitante en el sentido de que es el precedente que tiene nuestras culturas, que cuando se quiere hacer algo pues le hallamos la forma Y trato de recordar mucho eso.
Aquí es otra cultura, con otras reglas, mucho más rígidas en cuestión de todo. Cabe mencionar que esta es una cultura de las aseguranzas. La cultura de los Estados Unidos es “todo tienes que asegurarlo” lo que le dicen el insurance. Y eso no lo tenemos nosotros allá en México, al menos no sé en otros países de Latinoamérica. No tienes que entender, no tienes que tener todas tus bases cubiertas para poder emprender. Aquí es otro tipo de organización legal incluso. Y pues sí, tienes que tener muchas bases cubiertas antes de que te puedas comprometer con algo más grande. Pero existen las vías. Hoy por hoy estoy viendo de qué maneras podemos lograr. Yo creo que lo que todos quisiéramos que se lograra dentro de estos participantes de la iniciativa artística y creativa y sea algo que pueda servir consistentemente para hacer algo más grande. Proyectos más grandes eventualmente.
[00:34:25] METAS A FUTURO
Entrevistante: ¿Cuáles son tus metas a futuro con tu negocio en la ciudad de Madison?
Mónica Cliff: Pues muy relacionado con lo que acabo de decir. Yo quisiera que se creen terrenos más estables para que este jardín creativo pueda florecer. Una de las cosas en las que he trabajado durante los últimos dos años es en oportunidades donde se pueda crear un espacio físico que podamos llamar una casa. Una casa cultural, artística. Eso es muy difícil lograrlo solo y he estado trabajando con otras personas para ver de qué manera podemos compartir un espacio. Eventualmente eso me gustaría. Que tuviéramos esa estabilidad de un espacio donde podamos tener ensayos de teatro, puestas en escena. Donde podamos tener un estudio de artes plásticas. Donde podamos tener un espacio para eventos. Donde los trabajos que se crean en las clases puedan estar en una galería. Donde podamos tener este tipo de eventos donde traes a tu familia el último día de la clase o fin de semana y tenemos una cenita. Tenemos este convivio cultural que nos hace a nosotros como latinos, nos hace muy feliz hacer esos convivios y celebrar. Celebrar los logros de los participantes. Es que hasta que tú no te involucras no te das cuenta de toda la consistencia, la disciplina que le metiste a algo para que se lograra. Eso se debe de celebrar, yo creo que es muy importante. Y de alguna manera también sirve para motivar, motivar a otras personas a decir “a ver, yo también quiero tratar”. Creo que esa es una manera en la que podría las artes contribuir al bienestar comunitario. Crear esta conexión, esta sinergia de relaciones dentro de un ámbito. Tal vez de gustos en común, como las artes y que sea algo que también puedes hacer como en familia. Porque pienso que muchas veces no lo hacemos así y estamos tan ocupados. Una vez más, soy mamá, muchas veces lo que quieres es esta parte, esta oportunidad de poder interactuar en familia y poder compartir con tus propios hijos o con tus padres, no sé, un pasatiempo. Una actividad que yo siempre me gusta decir que no sea competitivo, porque eso lo tenemos en los deportes y en otras cosas, donde tú puedas celebrar esa parte de ser único. Tu visión única, tu manera única de expresarlo, una pieza de arte o un talento. El teatro es muy cooperativo, No competimos, todos tenemos que trabajar para la puesta en escena. Entonces creo que eso es importante. Es practicar incluso esas mentalidades no competitivas que estamos en un país que es muy competitivo, nos ayuda a balancear.
Entrevistante: ¿Ya hay algo más que te gustaría agregar?
Mónica Cliff: Bueno, pues si alguien de los que nos está escuchando vive en el área de Madison o sus alrededores están interesados en venir a checar, pueden checar nuestra página web. Nuestros servicios están ahí para que vean las clases que tenemos en artes plásticas. Esperemos tener clases de teatro, de drama en el 2023. Y si quieren también apoyar de alguna manera o de otra unirse a las iniciativas. Usualmente son diferentes, cada taller es diferente, no tenemos, pintura uno, pintura dos no es muy específico y tratamos también de hacer cosas que tengan que ver con, no sé, con lo que está sucediendo, la tendencia en nuestras culturas. Yo me fijo más o menos que está sucediendo en redes sociales, en otros países, con otros artistas y ver cuál es su enfoque y tratar de escuchar también cuál es el interés de nuestros participantes. ¿qué cree que les gustaría a ellos explorar? Entonces sí cheque nuestra página es Inventiva Works punto com y también tenemos redes sociales en Facebook y en Instagram. Chequeen cuánta diversión tenemos, cuando lo hacemos. Y pues sí, principalmente sería eso.
Entrevistante: Muchas gracias, Mónica, por permitirnos esta entrevista y por contribuir positivamente a la ciudad de Madison.
Mónica Cliff: Gracias a ustedes.
Identifier: madmex-004
Narrator name: Mónica Cliff
Interviewer name: Claudia González
Interview date: 12/17/2022
INDEX
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
[00:03:10] LOOKING FOR THEATER OPPORTUNITIES IN MADISON
[00:08:15] GROWING UP WITH THE ARTS, LACK OF LATINO ARTISTIC PRESENCE IN MADISON
[00:14:50] BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS AND IMPORTANCE OF THE ARTS
[00:18:25] CHALLENGES OF A CREATIVE STARTUP
[00:24:55] NAME AND BUSINESS CONCEPT
[00:26:50] HOW THE BUSINESS HAS EVOLVED
[00:30:50] DIFFICULTIES AND DIFFERENCES OF DOING THEATER IN THE UNITED STATES
[00:34:25] FUTURE GOALS
[RECORDING STARTS}
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
Interviewer: Hello, my name is Claudia Gonzalez. Today is December, Saturday 17, 2022. We are here with Monica Cliff, owner of Inventiva Works, recording a story for the Madison Public Library, for the project Living Stories. I will now allow our narrator to introduce herself.
Mónica Cliff: Hello. Thank you so much for the invitation. My name is Monica Cliff, and I am originally from Mexico, Zacatepec, Morelos, and I am an artist. I’ve been living here in Madison for approximately 20 years and my business, Inventiva Works is exactly two years old, as a business focused on art and creativity. But I have focused on arts ever since I arrived in Madison, working with other companies.
Interviewer: Monica, could you tell us your story? Oh, I am sorry. No. We could start this conversation by talking about your connection with our theme, which is the growth of Latin businesses in Madison.
Mónica Cliff: Well, my business is very small. It’s just two years as I mentioned. During these years, I have realized the difficulties of being a Latin business. Because it is not just a Latin business for having a Latin owner. I mean, yes, if you are Latin, it’s already a … but the mission and vision of the business is focused on serving the Latin communities and covering needs that are not being met. During my years here, I repeat, twenty years, I haven’t seen other organizations that are focused on this. And that motivated me to say, “Here I am”, I observe this, and I think it is part of my purpose as an artist, as a person, to put my grain of sand in this area. Regarding growth, I have seen consistency. I would like to emphasize that the business was founded in 2020, in the middle of a pandemic, so that has been an additional challenge to the ones that other businesses go through. But, somehow, things have progressed, and we have grown, and we have seen consistency. I don’t know if this answers your question.
[00:03:10] LOOKING FOR THEATER OPPORTUNITIES IN MADISON
Interviewer: Yes. Could you tell us the story of how and when you arrived in Madison and the work story as a Latin artist?
Mónica Cliff: I arrived in Madison because my ex-husband is from Madison. I really wouldn’t have been here any other way; it gets too cold. But I arrived here because he and his family are from here and we wanted to form a family. I graduated from the National School of Theater Arts in Mexico, with a degree in scenography and ever since I arrived here I looked for a Spanish theater company, and I was told that there wasn’t any.
I knocked on doors here and there, where there were community theater companies from the area. When I arrived there was only the Children's Theater of Madison, and they were also at a breaking point since they were facing economic issues, they didn’t know if they were going to go bankrupt or not and they had just nominated a new artistic director, so there was a lot of uncertainty in the organization. And there was other one, the Madison Theater Repertory (sic), that a year later also went bankrupt, and that was one of the stronger professional companies. They didn’t last long and closed their doors a year after I arrived. And ever since, I had the opportunity of establishing a connection with the Madison Children’s Theater Company, doing projects for them.
I never was or worked as an employee for these organizations. It has always been a way to, what do they call it, being a contractor, freelance work. And I got general experience through this project, and with several professional companies and even high schools that many times have theater clubs. I would do design, like costumes, puppets, scenography, and props.
I longed for that, since we didn’t have something centered in our community. In Mexico we really like entertainment, we really like it. At schools, we have dances, events, we are rowdy, and we love that thing of “Look, it’s my son’s turn” and that did not exist here really.
Even the organizations whom I used to collaborate with for many years didn’t have it. That has changed since 2020, I have to acknowledge that, they have opened up to have more equity, and inclusivity, but before, if you look at the history of the playwrights that they were performing, the cast, they were mostly white stories. From white communities, most participants in those plays were white, there was very rarely inclusivity regarding other cultures/ They didn’t say “let’s pick a play that talks about a different community”. I should also mention that the art organizations here at Madison Dane County are mostly led by white people. So for many years things were carried out in that way and there haven’t been any alternatives, other ways of promoting, of encouraging artistic and creative practice from our communities. Practices that are closer to our history, that are relevant to us, and in a way help us preserve our language, our culture, our traditions and to create that pride in our identity. The arts are a great way of creating this, right? I don’t know if I was rambling, but…
[00:08:15] GROWING UP WITH THE ARTS, LACK OF LATINO ARTISTIC PRESENCE IN MADISON
Interviewer: No, it’s fine. Thank you. What inspired you to start an artistic business? You talked a bit about this already.
Mónica Cliff: A little bit. Ever since I was a kid, I’ve had a very strong calling to the arts. Ever since Kinder, my friends that know me forever tell me “Since I met you in Kinder you were on course to do this” And, as I mentioned, I am from Zacatepec, Morelos which is a small town, it is not the countryside or the city, and even today in 2022 we do not have an arts and culture home in that town. I think that is crazy because we have creative needs. You don’t have to do this for a living, but it’s a good way of connecting with yourselves and others.
Since I was a kid I’ve had that hunger for artistic activities. Fortunately, my parents had the capacity and desire to support me and say, “well, we don’t have any here, but in Cuernavaca, which is approximately 45 minutes from where we live, there are courses, and we will take you to lessons there”. And that’s what they did since I was little. There was even a summer course there, in Cuernavaca, that is the capital of the state of Morelos, and they used to literally put me on a bus and tell me “You need to exit in this terminal, get on the road, cross the street, and there is the art center” So I used to go by myself, that was my level of motivation. I was ten years old, and I used to go by myself. And they also supported me for many years to take oil painting lessons with a professional artist, and they were private lessons. So, I used to go every week to understand, to learn oil painting. So, since I was a kid I’ve had that desire, that inclination, and I used to see that many communities, like where I was born, didn’t have this. As far as I know it still does not exist.
And I think that when I arrived at Madison, even if it is a larger city, and again, the capital of the state of Wisconsin, I thought it was weird that there wasn’t an artistic and creative Latin and Hispanic presence. They do in other cities like Milwaukee and Kenosha because the Latin population is larger. I think, if I remember it correctly, we 7% community here in Dane County is Latin Hispanic. And I think it’s more than that, but we are still talking about enough population to have these resources. I don’t know, I cannot believe it does not exist.
And that was my motivation,, what can I do, with my abilities, to start something? I started small by gathering people The first thing I did was give theater lessons, and I must mention that they were online due to the pandemic. That is not how theater is usually done. It was a barrier, a difficulty. I was told many times, before I started… I researched and interviewed leaders of art organizations, of Latin organizations, and I was told many times that it does not exist because there isn’t an interest within the community, that the community isn’t interested in this. And I used to say “Well, let’s see”, I will do it and if there isn’t an interest, that’s it. But the other thing we must consider is that interest is not just like “oh, there is an opportunity and everyone is going to jump on board”. That is not how I see it. You have to understand that there are habits that are not formed overnight, and that you might have an interest but that there are also barriers as a community to access those opportunities. It might be time? Or economic or transportation resources, I think we cannot really know. I think betting on it being a human need and that somehow bridges for these opportunities will be created, but it will not happen overnight. As you understand the terrain you are navigating you create it. Co-creating with the community, because you do not know all the answers, you have to listen to what the people want. Do it with them. For me this is like a dance, we are co-creating it. Because at the end of the day, we are not immortal, but you hope to set precedent for future generations also. So, yes, my main objective is creating more creative spaces.
[00:14:50] BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS AND IMPORTANCE OF THE ARTS
Interviewer: And let’s talk a little bit about how long you have been working on the project, is there anything you would like to add about how long you have been working on it?
Mónica Cliff: Good or bad? We have had it all. I can tell you that my experience has been mostly positive, I swear. It has even exceeded my expectations. This is something I have not done full time, because well, I have another full-time job. And this project has grown organically. I have expectations and illusions, dreams and purposes for us to grow. But I think in a way we have learned a lot, navigating the system. The business system, navigating relationships with other organizations, other leaders. I focus a lot on the relationship with the participants. That is for me, the main one, with the people that really want to be here, that really believe in this. So that relationship is the one I mostly focus on, besides the others. I think I appreciate it if they support the initiative or support the proposal in some way, but it must be congruent with our mission.
I don’t want to sacrifice the essence that is awakening that enjoyment, that passion for creativity, for the arts. I started with children, but then even the adults were like “I want to do it too.” I think that it’s a way for the community to feel like they are receiving an additional form of human wellness. I don’t think this is the key, but I think it is a piece that could bring you that well-being. Us humans are creative by nature. I love saying that we know history because a creative person left an image in a cave of a buffalo, or someone hunting one, or sculptures, or paintings, or someone wrote a poem, a story, or a novel. And we can know what happened because of the arts. Arts play a really important part in how we perceive our reality.
[00:18:25] CHALLENGES OF A CREATIVE STARTUP
Interviewer: What challenges have you had to face?
Mónica Cliff: During these two years, there were different ones. I think the first one was adapting ourselves to the reality at the time of the pandemic. The objective of gathering people, announcing it, and seeing if the people in the community were going to respond and continue. Because many times you answer and enroll and then not continue. Something that we need for the arts, and for everything really, even sports, is consistency. This is important because you do not see results in one session. You cannot create a play, for example in the case of theater, a production, in just two or three sessions. It takes a long time, a lot of rehearsal. Of 100%, 75% is done outside and 25% is the putting it on the stage.. I mean, everything you need to do to reach that objective. The other thing is navigating the legal system. What we need, understanding all that part. Once we had the green light to gather in person with masks, we had to find spaces
Because for theater you need spaces to rehearse and finding spaces that are not too expensive or financing projects of this magnitude. For people also to want to participate, ways of participating, to have the time to at least drop off and pick up their children at rehearsals. Or for them to have the availability to participate with their children and say, “let’s do it”
So, you need a lot of these things in working together. It is not only what we do in the lessons, you also need to do extra work. And somehow, having people that support you. People inside the community that don’t want to take advantage of the situation. For them to want to support the business but not turn things to their advantage. That is a situation that I realized happens. They want to change or pull energy from the community. Like, “the interest is there already, so now I will move it to my project”
I think this is important because I see these initiatives as small seeds that we plant and you see bloom, and then you have the plant, and you shouldn’t want to move it to your own garden. So, finding people that truly want to help you, asking “what do you need”? I fill it with fertilizer, with water for the initiative to grow where it was born, and not to want to pull it towards a bigger organization that never invested or betted on the initiative. I would say that it is very important, to get the space, respect. And if you want, support original initiatives by individual artists that do not have the weight or decades of trajectory, that are not in power. Really open up to the diversity in the place where it was created, to see plants of other sizes eventually grow. And that they exist due to the conditions of the landscape where they were planted. That is how I see it, as a metaphor, I think it is important to reflect on it.
If you are going to support it, support it from where the idea is happening. This happens a lot in the corporate world. There are startups, small businesses waiting to be bought out by the bigger shark, the bigger fish. I think that is why they work; they are in a landscape where the right conditions were met and once they are acquired they do not have the same power or vitality.
[00:24:55] NAME AND BUSINESS CONCEPT
Interviewer: We would like to know the origin of your business, the name of your business, I am sorry. We would like to know the origin of the name of your business.
Mónica Cliff: It is called Inventiva Works. Inventiva is the Spanish word for Inventive, it is a synonym of creativity. I liked it because ever since I was little my dad would always tell me that I was very inventive. He told me, you are always creating, inventing things. I thought it was good to integrate a word in Spanish and one in English. And also, Inventiva is feminine, which I also thought was important to show that female presence in the organization. It is inviting, it is not the creation of a fine art, it does not necessarily have to be formal. It is playful, like a game, to invent and create, that is how I see it. It is not rigid, like academia. We are not talking about an art conservatory. I believe arts should be much more accessible than that, than the rigidity of art conservatories. That is what I aspire to be. To create and for it to be accessible, for it to be entertaining, for people to say, “I want to come back, that was so nice, and I don’t know why I didn’t do it sooner” That is mostly the origin.
[00:26:50] HOW THE BUSINESS HAS EVOLVED
Interviewer: Could you tell us how your business has evolved until now?
Mónica Cliff: Well, it’s been two years. I feel we have had a consistent and organic growth. A lot. It started from curiosity; I didn’t know if there was an interest in this. Then we started with the virtual theater classes, in January. Then in summer we had our group, and we could meet in person with masks and all. We had the opportunity of doing our first production with children. And that summer I said, “let’s see if there is also an interest in doing art lessons, mostly painting” And that started with a group of children, and it has grown exponentially. It started as a small workshop of a few sessions.
I started it from what I observed, and I say observe because I have two children. I am a mother and I took my children to many art classes, a lot of summer activities and such. And what did I observe? Did they want to come back or not? Were they involved or not? How much time were they actually involved? What was the objective? For them to just spend time while we worked or what? So, I took all of these things into account to create a service for participants, children at the beginning, because it was mostly for them, but also for the families. How could we make the parents comfortable knowing that their children were at a safe place, in a place where they could reinforce their self-esteem and their cultural identity?
All the lessons are in Spanish. We talk about Latin-American artists and artworks. I also included arts and crafts from our cultures. I tried paying attention and listening to what others were telling me, what were the children telling me? “Why don’t you do a class on this”, the kids would tell me. And I would make a mental note of that. Or the parents would tell me “You have to do this” So, I would try to do that exercise to integrate all the voices into something that was fun for me too, this is an experiment for me.
After every session I try to think about how I could have done it better, what could I do differently or how can I make them understand a technique or something like that. That is how I take it, one lesson at the time, and I have grown from that, it has been very satisfactory.
[00:30:50] DIFFICULTIES AND DIFFERENCES OF DOING THEATER IN THE UNITED STATES
Mónica Cliff: I have been asked about theater lessons, I think the biggest obstacle in the lack of space. To do theater you need a bigger investment of time, of more resources in general. So, I have been thinking about how is it possible to do and how to do this with the skills we learned in our countries, Mexico in particular for me, because arts and culture are not really supported there either. There are always budget cuts and the first thing they cut are the ones for art and culture. In Mexico we are very resourceful as they say here in the United States.
We manage with what we have and sometimes even if you do not have access to a theater there is street theater, or different kinds that you can create. For example, when I was in Theater school, I formed a theater company with the students from the acting school and we would do a touring theater and gave talks at schools. So, eventually we could have a play at a theater, but I don’t think it should be limiting. That is a precedent we carry from our cultures, when we want to do something, we find the way. I try to remember that a lot.
Here we have a different culture, the rules are more rigid regarding everything. Here you have the culture of insurance. The culture here in the United States requires you to have insurance. We don’t have that in Mexico at least, I don’t know about other countries in Latin-America, but you do not need to cover all your bases before starting a business. Here the organization is different, even in legal terms. You have to cover all your bases before you commit to something bigger, But there are ways. Today I am trying to see how we can achieve things. I believe that all the participants of this artistic and creative initiative have somehow helped to create something bigger, bigger projects eventually.
[00:34:25] FUTURE GOALS
Interviewer: What are your future goals for your business in Madison?
Mónica Cliff: Everything is related to what I just said. I would like to create more stable landscape so this creative garden can flower. One of the things I have worked on the most during these two years is to create a physical space that we can call home. A cultural and artistic home. That is very hard to accomplish alone, and I have been working with other people to see how we could share a space. I would eventually like that. For us to have the stability of a space where we could have theater rehearsals, an art studio, a space for events, a gallery where we could show the works created in the classes. Where we could have events like bring your family to the last day of class and then have dinner. We have that cultural fellowship as Latin people, it makes us very happy to gather and celebrate. To celebrate the accomplishments of the participants. You cannot notice the consistency and discipline required to accomplish something until you get involved. So that must be celebrated. And somehow also motivate, motivate others to say “Let’s see, I want to try it too.” I think that is a way in which arts could contribute to the welfare of the community. To create that connection, that synergy of relationships within that scene, right? Maybe with common interests, like arts and do them as a family. I think many times, we do not do them and we are really busy. Again, I am a mother, and many times you want that opportunity to interact as a family and share a pastime, an activity with your children, or with your parents, One that is not competitive also, we have sports for that. Where you can celebrate being unique. Your unique vision, your unique way of expressing it, through a piece of art or talent. Theater is very cooperative. We do not compete; we all have to work for the production. So, I believe that is important. To practice those non-competitive attitudes that help us balance ourselves, because we are in a very competitive country.
Interviewer: Anything else you would like to add?
Mónica Cliff: Well, if someone that is listening to us lives near Madison and is interested in checking us out, you can visit our website. You can see our services there, our art lessons. We are hoping to have theater, and drama lessons in 2023. And if you want, you can somehow support or join other initiatives. They are usually different, each workshop is different, we do not have “painting 1, painting 2.” It is not very specific, and we try to do things related to what is happening, and the tendencies in our cultures. I check what is happening on social media, in other countries with other artists and see what their approach is and try to listen to the interests of our participants. Seeing what they would like to explore. So, you can check our website, Inventiva works dot com, and we also have social media, Facebook, and Instagram. You can check how much fun we are having when we do. And that would be it.
Interviewer: Thank you very much Monica for this interview and for positively contributing to the city of Madison.
Mónica Cliff: Thank you.
Identificante: madmex-003
Nombre narrador: Víctor Rojas
Nombre entrevistante Marisol González
Fecha de la entrevista: 12/14/2022
ÍNDICE
[00:00:00] INTRODUCCIÓN
[00:00:51] INICIANDO EL NEGOCIO Y RETOS
[00:04:10] CLASES DE CONSTRUCCIÓN EN MADISON COLLEGE
[00:10:20] CONSTRUCCIÓN DE CASAS SUSTENTABLES
[00:19:40] RETOS Y APOYO ENTRE LATINOS EN LA CONSTRUCCIÓN
[00:26:50] EVOLUCIÓN DEL NEGOCIO HASTA EL PRESENTE
[00:30:15] CONSEJOS PARA LOS QUE BUSCAN EMPEZAR UN NEGOCIO
[00:00:00] INTRODUCCIÓN
Entrevistante: Hola, mi nombre es Marisol González. Hoy es miércoles, 14 de diciembre de 2022. Estamos aquí con Víctor Rojas, dueño de VR Construction, grabando una historia para la Biblioteca Pública de Madison, para el proyecto de historias vivas. Ahora voy a permitirle a nuestro narrador que se presente.
Víctor Rojas: Hola, ¿qué tal? buenos días, mi nombre es Víctor Rojas y soy del estado de Tlaxcala en el país de México. Estoy aquí en Madison, Wisconsin de este el 2004.
Entrevistante: Cuéntanos tu historia de cómo y cuándo llegaste a Madison.
Víctor Rojas: Llegué aquí a Madison porque tenía unos familiares aquí y me invitaron a venir. Antes de estar aquí en Madison, estuve en el estado de New Jersey.
[00:00:51] INICIANDO EL NEGOCIO Y RETOS
Entrevistante: ¿Cuáles han sido los retos que te has encontrado en tu camino a…? Perdón, esta pregunta no la vamos a hacer todavía. ¿Puedes contarnos tu historia de cómo iniciaste tu negocio?
Víctor Rojas: Bueno, inicié mi negocio cuando nació mi segundo hijo. Solamente quería tener más tiempo para ellos, pero me di cuenta de que tomaba más tiempo iniciar un negocio. No sabía nada de los negocios y creo que como muchos inmigrantes—la mayoría que abrimos negocios—no sabemos, simplemente queremos, ya sea por ganar más o por tener más tiempo. En mi caso, era poder tener más tiempo, pero… Entonces, yo he trabajado en la construcción durante mucho tiempo y decidí montar mi propio negocio.
Entrevistante: ¿Cuáles han sido los retos que has encontrado en tu camino?
Víctor Rojas: Bueno, ha habido muchos, pero creo que esos son los retos naturales de cualquier negocio. Por ejemplo, el reto del crédito. Muchas veces no encontramos crédito de los bancos para comprar cualquier equipo o herramientas que necesitamos. La otra es el idioma; la mayoría de nuestros clientes habla inglés y nosotros no podemos hablar muy bien inglés. Entonces, es otra barrera. Y la otra es empezar a darse a conocer. Yo creo que todo negocio empieza de a poco y conforme se va uno dando a conocer, ya empieza a tener muchos más clientes.
Entrevistante: ¿Cómo ha evolucionado tu negocio?
Víctor Rojas: Puedo decir que mi negocio ha tenido suerte porque ha evolucionado orgánicamente, es decir, que va de a poco. No hemos tenido un crecimiento muy rápido y eso nos ha permitido tener las suficientes herramientas; contar con mano de obra; conocer a otras personas que nos pueden ayudar con los proyectos. Y así, poder hacer un buen trabajo.
[00:04:10] CLASES DE CONSTRUCCIÓN EN MADISON COLLEGE
Entrevistante: Quisiéramos adentrarnos un poco más en tu historia desde el principio. ¿Dónde tomaste clases de construcción? ¿Qué te inspiró a que fuera este el camino qué querías tomar? ¿Siempre te ha gustado la construcción? Cuéntanos un poco más.
Víctor Rojas: Desde que yo estaba en mi país, creo que una de las carreras que yo quería tomar era ser doctor o ser arquitecto. Cuando vine acá a este país, se vieron truncados mis estudios y entonces, como la mayoría de los inmigrantes, empiezan en la construcción. Entonces, yo trabajaba en la construcción y después de abrir mi negocio, me di cuenta de que si quería superarme, ya sea personalmente o en el negocio, tenía que seguir estudiando. Entonces, lo que hice es empezar a ir a Madison College, a tomar una carrera que se llama Construcción y Remodelación. Eso me abrió muchas más puertas, porque entonces ya podía tener conversaciones con los clientes acerca de lo que ellos necesitaban y explicarles. Como nos enseñaron en la escuela los términos que se utilizan en la construcción, ya podíamos comunicarnos mejor.
Entrevistante: Entonces, ¿podemos recalcar que ese es uno de los beneficios que tenemos en nuestra ciudad de Madison, un college comunitario que provee este tipo de clases?
Víctor Rojas: Pues, yo pienso que como en todo el mundo, cada persona es diferente y hay necesidades diferentes. No todo el mundo va a poder ser abogado, porque si no, ¿quién es el que construye las casas? Entonces, las escuelas técnicas siempre son importantes. Nosotros aquí en Madison, tenemos el Madison College y siempre hay muchas carreras técnicas, ya sea que las uses para crecimiento personal o simplemente para un hobby que tengas.
Entrevistante: Ya. ¿Por cuánto tiempo tomaste las clases… estudiaste?
Víctor Rojas: Los de mi clase fuimos alrededor de dos años y medio. Si se tomara a tiempo completo, la duración sería de un año. Pero como la mayoría de los que íbamos allá, éramos adultos y trabajábamos, ofrecían las clases en la noche. Íbamos cuatro horas, como de 5 de la tarde a 9 de la noche.
Entrevistante: ¿Después del trabajo?
Víctor Rojas: Sí, todos los días.
Entrevistante: Todos los días después del trabajo. Y, ¿todavía existe este curso?
Víctor Rojas: Después de que nosotros salimos parece que lo pararon por falta de personal y falta de presupuesto, pero parece que ya lo están iniciando otra vez.
Entrevistante: Pero ¿el curso base sí existe?
Víctor Rojas: El curso que es en el día sí se ha mantenido, pero el de la tarde es el que a veces no dan.
Entrevistante: Entonces, es hasta cierto punto, uno de los tantos obstáculos que enfrenta nuestra comunidad, ¿no? Tener que buscar oportunidades que no siempre están disponibles, como aquello de ir a tomar cursos en la noche porque no siempre están disponibles. Y cuando se corta el presupuesto, bueno pues… creo que es ahí cuando toman las decisiones de que quizás esto no es tan importante. Pero en realidad, sí es importante porque significa un cambio en el futuro de las personas, ¿no? Si este curso no hubiera existido, ¿tú crees que hubieras podido ser estudiante de tiempo completo?
Víctor Rojas: Pues la verdad, nunca fui estudiante de tiempo completo. Por eso es que íbamos en las tardes. Estos cursos en las tardes siempre son necesarios, más que nada para la gente adulta, que quiere ya sea cambiar de carrera, o simplemente superarse en el trabajo.
Muchas de estas carreras técnicas se basan en créditos, entonces uno puede tomar clases, ya sea que uno vaya dos días por unas tres horas o algo así. Y entonces, uno puede aprender, pero el problema es que muchos de nuestros trabajos no tienen esa flexibilidad: poder decir, sabes qué, voy a salir del trabajo el martes a las 10:00 h de la mañana y regresar a las 15:00 h de la tarde, ya sea para el estudiante como para el empleador podría no ser conveniente. Por eso, son muy importantes esas clases en la noche.
[00:10:20] CONSTRUCCIÓN DE CASAS SUSTENTABLES
Entrevistante: Ya. Cuéntanos un poquito sobre los proyectos que has hecho y lo que estás haciendo en este momento. Sé que hay una iniciativa y un proyecto específico con las casas sustentables en Madison. ¿Puedes contarnos un poquito acerca de esto?
Víctor Rojas: Como les dije al principio, después de que nosotros fuimos a la escuela, hemos podido tener clientes que tienen mayor presupuesto y también unas ideas más definidas de lo que quieren en sus proyectos. Y como hemos hecho muy buenas relaciones con otras ramas de la construcción, como es la electricidad, la plomería, hemos hecho un buen grupo. Nuestro grupo … tenemos gente inmigrante, gente hispana, gente americana. Entonces, gracias a eso hemos podido encontrar clientes que han querido proyectos más personalizados. Y en este momento, estamos haciendo una casa autosustentable, lo más autosustentable que se pueda. Cuando se habla de casas autosustentables, lo que queremos decir es que se utilicen mejor los materiales y los recursos para construir esa casa. Aquí, en este estado, la mayoría se construye con madera. Entonces, lo que nosotros hicimos es las paredes dobles para que una pared solo sea el aislamiento y en la otra pared para toda la tubería y el cableado de la luz. Así se aprovecha más el calor que se produce por dentro y no dejar que el clima de afuera se mezcle con el de adentro o al revés.
Entrevistante: Wow, ¡qué interesante!
Víctor Rojas: Sí, y hasta cierto punto, todo eso fue también gracias a que fuimos a la escuela porque todos esos parámetros se miden… En la escuela tomamos una clase de ciencia. En ella, nos hablaban, por ejemplo, que cuando no queremos que se mezclen el clima de adentro y afuera, lo llamamos el valor R, o el R value que se llama aquí. Generalmente, este es el valor del aislamiento. En esta casa, estamos poniendo 7 pulgadas de aislamiento, mientras que en una casa estándar son 3.5 pulgadas o cuatro. Entonces, estamos poniendo el doble de aislamiento. Eso permite que ahora en invierno, simplemente con que se cierre toda la casa y no haya aislamiento, se puede tener un clima agradable. El frío no se siente mucho.
Entrevistante: ¿Que se cierre la casa y no haya aislamiento?
Víctor Rojas: No, no. Que se cierre la casa y no haya calefacción… sin calefacción, sí.
Víctor Rojas: … O al revés, cuando es verano, si cerramos las puertas y ventanas, podemos tener un buen clima adentro también. O sea, se puede sentir la diferencia entre adentro y afuera.
Entrevistante: ¿Cuánto te ha tomado este proyecto? Es muy bonito lo que nos compartes que esto ha sido una colaboración y ser parte de este proyecto con diferentes trabajadores. Cuéntanos un poco de tu experiencia. Este es el primer proyecto de casa sustentable que has hecho, ¿verdad?
Víctor Rojas: Igual, este trabajo nosotros lo pudimos obtener porque el cliente estaba buscando alguien que supiera, o entendiera los términos de lo que es una casa autosustentable. Entonces, hay muchos términos que se utilizan, que muchos contratistas simplemente no saben. Entonces, cuando el cliente ya vino con una idea específica y dijo, “Yo quiero construir una casa así,” nos entrevistamos con él y sí, al final de cuentas, nos dijo, “Parece que ustedes saben de lo que yo hablo. Nos podemos entender, nos podemos comunicar.” Y sí, nos dieron los planos y comenzamos a hacer el trabajo. Ya llevamos alrededor de 13 meses trabajando en esa casa. Esperamos que en unos 4 o 5 meses ya esté lista para ser habitada.
Entrevistante: Wow, ¡qué bueno! Yo me siento muy orgullosa de saber que estas son las maneras positivas que contribuimos los latinos a la ciudad de Madison, ¿no? Nuestro proyecto es acerca de los negocios latinos en la ciudad de Madison en los últimos 20 años y sobre el crecimiento de los negocios latinos. Creo que ahora podemos ver en nuestra ciudad una gama de negocios que satisfacen las necesidades de nuestra comunidad. Y saber que manos latinas están involucradas en estos proyectos que son tan importantes para el medio ambiente y para la comunidad, la evolución de la comunidad, creo que es muy satisfactorio personalmente. ¿Cómo ves el futuro de estas casas en la ciudad?
Víctor Rojas: Estas casas son como un negocio. Es como si comparáramos con los carros. La mayoría de los carros te puede llevar del punto A al punto B. Una casa, mientras tengas un techo que cuando haya una tormenta, un aguacero, te cubra, eso ya es considerado una casa. Pero estas casas son más personalizadas y autosustentables. Entonces, al principio, es una inversión más grande que una casa estándar. En este estado, muchas personas se pueden permitir—se puede decir un lujo—tanto que ya tenemos en plática otras casas, otros proyectos similares. Les ha gustado nuestro trabajo y ya nos están contactando para decirnos que quieren una casa igual. Y sí, parece que estos proyectos, aunque sean un poco más lentos porque hay que poner mucha atención en los detalles, mucha gente se los puede permitir… Entonces sí, estamos teniendo conversaciones con otros futuros clientes.
[00:19:40] RETOS Y APOYO ENTRE LATINOS EN LA CONSTRUCCIÓN
Entrevistante: ¿Qué quisieras que la gente sepa sobre los latinos que trabajan en construcción en Madison?
Víctor Rojas: Yo creo que lo primero que deberían saber es que la mayoría de los latinos son gente responsable. Son gente que le gusta trabajar, que no tienen miedo al trabajo y que siempre van a tratar de hacer lo mejor posible para que el trabajo se haga bien.
Entrevistante: Cuéntanos acerca de tu conexión con nuestro tema: ¿cuál es el crecimiento de los negocios latinos en Madison?
Víctor Rojas: Si yo me quisiera incluir en este tema, creo que la mayor aportación que yo he hecho en esto ha sido, primero, abrir un negocio y así, dar el ejemplo a otras personas que se puede. Y segundo, poder dar consejos. Por ejemplo, otras personas que están haciendo sus negocios, me llaman y me preguntan, “¿Cómo puedo hacer este presupuesto? ¿Cómo puedo obtener más clientes? O dónde conseguir tal equipo y materiales.” Es una red que muchos negocios tenemos y va creciendo con el tiempo. Todo depende de la responsabilidad y de la confianza entre negocios que uno va forjando. La otra es poder contratar a gente y ya sea enseñarles o darles oportunidad de trabajo y con el tiempo, poder pagarles un salario que sea razonable y que sea compatible con el nivel de vida que se vive en la ciudad.
Entrevistante: Claro. No sé si ya te hicimos esta pregunta o no. ¿Cuáles son los retos qué has encontrado en tu camino?
Víctor Rojas: Como les dije al principio, el primer objetivo que tuve cuando quise abrir un negocio… bueno, uno de los objetivos era poder tener más tiempo. Creo que el reto era eso, el tiempo; querer que nuestros trabajos se hagan bien, entonces al menos yo, le ponía mucho tiempo. Entonces, como que descuidaba a mi familia al principio. Y creo que la mayoría de los negocios te van a decir lo mismo. Cuando recién empiezas haces el trabajo de quizá tres personas. Y luego está el reto crediticio o reto monetario cuando no tenemos nada que nos avale. Porque mucha gente inmigrante no traemos dinero, entonces no tenemos propiedades, o no tenemos familiares que tengan suficiente dinero y nos digan, “Vamos al banco y yo con mi casa te avalo un préstamo.” No tenemos historial crediticio para poder comprar equipo o materiales que necesitamos. Entonces, creo que la única manera es ir creciendo poco a poco. Y creo que a mí al menos me ha gustado ese método, porque como que he dado pasos firmes. No he tenido que decir, sí puedo agarrar tal trabajo de cientos de miles de dólares, y después ya veremos cómo le hacemos. Al contrario, ahora sé que lo podemos hacer porque hemos ido creciendo así, poco a poco.
Entrevistante: ¿Cómo ha evolucionado tu negocio?
Víctor Rojas: En sí, creo que como negocio es otra vez lo que dije antes, ir creciendo poco a poco y estar enfocados o buscar clientes que ya tengan un presupuesto mayor, o un proyecto que nos satisfaga personalmente; que podamos pasar delante de una casa y podamos decir, “¡Qué bien, yo la construí!” Hay veces que nos vuelven a invitar los clientes y dicen, “¡Ellos son los que construyeron nuestra cocina!” Creo que como negocio y como trabajadores, esa es nuestra motivación. Entonces, como que hay que buscar eso, qué es lo que te motiva. Ese es el reto que uno también se impone. Y otro de los retos que la mayoría de los negocios tiene es el personal. Para mí, significa tener motivados a los compañeros de trabajo y creo que una de las motivaciones es saber que estás haciendo algo bueno, algo de calidad. Entonces, pues gracias a eso hemos tenido compañeros de trabajo que han estado por años en nuestra compañía.
[00:26:50] EVOLUCIÓN DEL NEGOCIO HASTA EL PRESENTE
Entrevistante: ¡Muy bien! Entonces la evolución de tu negocio fue que al principio solo hacían remodelaciones y ahora ya están haciendo casas sustentables, desde los cimientos, ¿o cómo es eso?
Víctor Rojas: Sí pues, al principio empezamos con proyectos de mantenimiento, la mayoría, que pudimos agarrar en lugares donde tenían apartamentos. Entonces nos llamaban porque necesitaban arreglar tal cosa. Y ya después empezamos a agarrar proyectos un poco más grandes y así se ha ido creciendo. Y también hemos tomado cursos y hemos ido a la escuela. Así es como ha podido crecer el negocio.
Entrevistante: ¿Qué tipo de publicidad has tenido que utilizar?
Víctor Rojas: La mayoría de los servicios… Mejor dicho, la publicidad que utilizan los servicios ha sido lo que se llama “voz a voz,” donde un cliente nos recomienda a otro y así. Sí, la mejor publicidad que hemos tenido ha sido nuestro trabajo. Y ya después, ha sido que a la mayoría del equipo que tenemos le ponemos nuestro logotipo y a las playeras que tenemos, la ropa que traemos. Pero sí, creo que la mejor publicidad es nuestro trabajo.
Entrevistante: Hay una cuestión controversial respecto a que hay que buscar a los latinos porque ellos trabajan más barato y trabajan mejor. O sea, con los latinos tenemos bueno, bonito y barato. ¿Qué piensas respecto a esto en cuanto a la construcción?
Víctor Rojas: No es un problema solo de los latinos. Yo creo que es un problema general. Podría ser que en cualquier cosa podemos encontrar algo así, bueno, bonito y barato. Pero en cuanto a la construcción, muchas veces no se puede encontrar eso. Me puedo ver, por ejemplo, cuando yo empecé. Quizá ya no podría… como diría… En estos momentos el negocio ya no alcanza para poder vivir como vivía antes, cuando empecé.
[00:30:15] CONSEJOS PARA LOS QUE BUSCAN EMPEZAR UN NEGOCIO
Entrevistante: ¿Hay algo más que te gustaría agregar que no hemos mencionado?
Víctor Rojas: Una de las cosas… quizá una recomendación para los que vienen, para los que quieren comenzar es que siempre es bueno tratar de invertir en uno mismo: tomar clases, tomar cursos en los que tal vez puedas obtener un certificado que te avale, que certifique que hiciste ese curso, que sabes hacer eso, o, aunque sea solo por obtener los conocimientos. Porque el saber también te da confianza para que uno pueda hablar con los clientes. Yo recomendaría mirar unas 3 empresas con las que quieras trabajar. Y escoger la que te da más confianza. Muchas veces no importa el que le da mejor precio, sino el que piensa que va a ser el mejor trabajo. Entonces, es importante atender cursos, ir a la escuela. Y luego está el personal. Creo que los que trabajan también tienen que saber lo que están haciendo. Entonces, también invertir en ello.
Entrevistante: ¿Recomiendas a las personas que inicien un negocio de construcción en Madison?
Víctor Rojas: Pues, yo pienso que cualquier persona puede iniciar un negocio de construcción en Madison o donde sea. Pienso que donde haya más personas siempre se va a necesitar más casas. Entonces, creo que el negocio de la construcción es bueno todo el tiempo.
Entrevistante: Muchas gracias, Víctor Rojas, por tu tiempo y por compartir tu historia con nosotros y contribuir positivamente al crecimiento de nuestra ciudad. Muchas gracias, Víctor.
Víctor Rojas: Al contrario, gracias a ustedes.
Identifier: madmex-003
Narrator: Víctor Rojas
Interviewer: Marisol González
Date of interview: 12/14/2022
INDEX
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
[00:00:51] STARTING THE BUSINESS AND CHALLENGES
[00:04:10] CONSTRUCTION CLASSES AT MADISON COLLEGE
[00:10:20] CONSTRUCTION OF SUSTAINABLE HOUSING
[00:19:40] CHALLENGES AND SUPPORT AMONG LATINOS IN CONSTRUCTION
[00:26:50] EVOLUTION OF THE BUSINESS TO THE PRESENT
[00:30:15] ADVICE FOR THOSE THINKING OF GOING INTO BUSINESS
[START OF RECORDING]
[00:00:00] INTRODUCTION
Interviewer: Hello, my name is Marisol Gonzalez. Today is Wednesday, December 14th, 2022. We are here with Víctor Rojas, owner of Víctor Rojas Construction, recording a story for the Madison Public Library for the project Living Stories. Now, I let our guest introduce himself.
Víctor Rojas: Hello everyone, good morning, my name is Víctor Rojas and I'm from the state of Tlaxacala, in my country, Mexico. I've been here in Madison, Wisconsin since 2014.
Interviewer: Tell us your story about how and when you came to Madison.
Víctor Rojas: I came to Madison because I had relatives who invited me to come. Before coming to Madison, I was in the state of New Jersey.
[00:00:51] STARTING THE BUSINESS AND CHALLENGES
Interviewer: Which have been the challenges you have found in your path to…? Sorry, we're not going to ask this question yet.
Can you tell us the story of how you began your business?
Víctor Rojas: Well, I started my business when my second child was born. I only wanted to have more time for them, but I realized it took longer to start a business. I didn't know much about businesses and like most immigrants—the majority of us who start businesses—don't know anything, we just want to do it, either to make more money or have more time. It my case, it was to have more time, but since I've been in construction for a long time, I decided to open my own business.
Interviewer: What have been the challenges that you have found along the way?
Víctor Rojas: Well, there have been several, but I think they are the natural challenges of any business. For example, the challenge of getting a loan. Many times, we can't get loans from the banks to buy the equipment or the tools we need. The other challenge is the language. Most of our clients speak English and we can't speak English well. So, that's a barrier, and the other is making ourselves known. I think every business should begin slowly and as the business becomes known, our clients increase.
Interviewer: How has your business evolved?
Víctor Rojas: I can say my business has been lucky because it has evolved organically, I mean, it has grown one step at a time. We didn't grow quickly and that has enabled us to have enough tools; hire labor; get to know people who can help us with the projects, and this way, do a good job.
[00:04:10] CONSTRUCTION CLASSES AT MADISON COLLEGE
Interviewer: We'd like to dig deeper into your story from the beginning. Where did you take construction classes? What made you decide that this was the path you wanted to take? Have you always liked construction? Tell us a bit more.
Víctor Rojas: Since I was in my country, I wanted to become a doctor or an architect. When I came to this country, I had no way to study and like most immigrants, I got into construction. So, as I worked in the construction business, I realized that if I wanted to be more either as a person or through a business, I had to study. What I did is begin at Madison College, in a course known as Construction and Remodeling. This opened a lot of doors for me, because I could have conversations with my clients about what they needed, and I could explain myself. In school, they taught us the terms used in construction, so we could communicate better.
Interviewer: We can then emphasize that this is one of the benefits we have here in Madison, a community college that provides these types of classes?
Víctor Rojas: I think that everywhere, each person is different, so their needs are different too. Not everyone can become a lawyer because then, who would build houses? Therefore, technical schools are always important. Here at Madison, we have Madison college, and there are always many technical careers to choose from, either for personal growth or simply for a hobby you might have.
Interviewer: I see. How long did you go to school?
Víctor Rojas: My classmates and I went for around 2 1/2 years. If you take the course full time, it lasts one year. But since most of the people in my course were adults and we worked; we went to night school. We went for four hours from 5:00 to 9:00 PM.
Interviewer: After work?
Víctor Rojas: Yes, every day.
Interviewer: Every day after work… And is the course still available?
Víctor Rojas: After we finished. it seems they interrupted it due to lack of personnel and budget problems, but it seems they're starting it again.
Interviewer: But the course itself is still available?
Víctor Rojas: The day course has not been interrupted. It's the afternoon one that is sometimes not available.
Interviewer: To a certain extent then, this is one of the obstacles our community faces, right? Having to look for opportunities that aren't always available, such as taking night courses although they're not always available. And when it's a budget problem, well then… that's when they make decisions that perhaps this course isn't so important. But in reality, it is very important because it can change the future of some people, right? Had this course not existed, do you think you would have been able to be a full-time student?
Víctor Rojas: Actually, I was never a full-time student. That's why I went in the evenings. These courses are always necessary especially for adult people who want to change their career, or simply improve their job opportunities. Many of these technical careers are based on credits, so you can take classes once or twice a week for three hours or so. Then you can also learn, but the problem is that most of our jobs don't have this flexibility: You know, being able to say at work that you're going out on Tuesday at 10 in the morning and coming back at three in the afternoon. Either for the student or for the employer this may not be convenient. That's why night school is so important.
[00:10:20] CONSTRUCTION OF SUSTAINABLE HOUSING
Interviewer: I see. Tell us a little bit about the projects you have done and what you're doing right now. I know there is an initiative and a specific project for self-sustaining homes in Madison. Can you tell us a little bit more about this?
Víctor Rojas: As I said in the beginning, after we went to school, we were able to get in touch with clients that have a bigger budget and also, more specific ideas of what they want in their projects. And since we have great contacts in other fields of construction, such as electricity and plumbing, we have been able to establish a good group. Our group is made up of immigrants, Hispanics, Americans. Therefore, because of this, we've been able to find clients looking for more personalized projects. And right now, we are building a self-sustaining home, as self-sustaining as possible. When we talk about self-sustaining homes, what we mean is that the materials and resources used are better utilized. Here, in this state, most houses are made of wood. So, what we did is build a double wall. One wall is only for insulation and the other is for tubing and wiring. This way, you take advantage of the heat that's generated inside and prevent the weather outside from mingling with the one inside, or vice versa.
Interviewer: Wow, how interesting!
Víctor Rojas: Yes, and to a certain extent all of this came to be because we went to school. At school, we took a science class, where they explained that preventing the outside climate from mingling with the inside one is called the R value. Usually, this is the insulation value. In this house, we are putting 7 inches of insulation, while a standard house has 3 1/2 or four inches. We are therefore putting double insulation. This means that during the winter, by simply closing the entire house and without insulation, you can have a very comfortable temperature. You can hardly feel the cold.
Interviewer: Closing the house and without insulation?
Víctor Rojas: No, no. Closing the house and without any heating, yes, without heating.
Víctor Rojas: Or the other way around, in the summer if we close the doors and windows, we can have a very comfortable climate inside also. I mean you can feel the difference between the inside and the outside.
Interviewer: How long has this project taken you? What you have shared is very heartwarming, the cooperation and being a part of a project with different workers. Tell us a little bit about your experience. Is this the first self-sustaining home project you have been involved in?
Víctor Rojas: Likewise, we were able to obtain this job because the client was looking for someone who knew or understood the terms of what a self-sustaining home was. There are many terms used that lots of contractors simply don't understand. So, when the client came with a specific idea and said, “I want to build a house like this,” we had an interview and, in the end, he told us, “it seems you guys know what I'm talking about. We understand each other and we can communicate.” And yes, they gave us the blueprint and we started to work. We've been working on that house approximately 13 months, and we hope that in four or five more months, they'll be able to move in.
Interviewer: Wow, that's great! I feel very proud of hearing about these positive ways in which Latinos are contributing to Madison, don't you? Our project is about Latin businesses in the city of Madison in the last 20 years and how these businesses have grown. I think that now we can see in our city a wide range of businesses that satisfy the needs of our community. And to know that Latin hands are involved in these projects that are so important for the environment and the community, the evolution of the community, I think is personally very satisfying. How do you foresee the future of these houses in the city?
Víctor Rojas: These houses are like a business. It's like when we buy a car. Most cars will take you from point A to point B. A house, if it has a roof that covers you when there's a storm or a rain shower, that's considered a house. But these houses are much more personalized and self-sustaining. Therefore, at first, it's a bigger investment than for a standard house. There are many people in this state that can afford—one might say a luxury—these types of houses, so much so that we are already negotiating similar projects. They've liked our work and they're getting in touch with us to tell us they want a house like this one. And although these projects take much longer because you have to pay a great deal of attention to detail, a lot of people can afford them… So yes, we're negotiating with future clients.
[00:19:40] CHALLENGES AND SUPPORT AMONG LATINOS IN CONSTRUCTION
Interviewer: What would you like people to know about Latinos who work in construction in Madison?
Víctor Rojas: I think the first thing people should know is that most Latinos are responsible people. They are people who like to work, who are not afraid of hard work, and who will always do the best they can so that the job will be well done.
Interviewer: Tell us what your connection with our subject is: what has been the growth of Latin businesses in Madison?
Víctor Rojas: If I were to include myself in this subject, I think my main contribution to it has been, first, opening a business, thereby setting an example for other people that it can be done. And second, I can give advice. For instance, other people who are setting up a business, call me and ask me, “Listen, how do I make a budget? How can I get more clients? Or where can I get such equipment or materials.” It's a network that includes many businesses and it's growing all the time. It all depends on the responsibility and trust among businesses. Another point is hiring people and either training them or giving them the opportunity of a job, which in time will pay a reasonable salary that's compatible with the standard of living in the city.
Interviewer: Of course. I don't know if we've asked this question yet. What have been the challenges you have found?
Víctor Rojas: As I said in the beginning, the first objective I had in opening a business… well, one of the main objectives, was to have more time. I think that was the challenge, time; wanting to do a good job, so at least I put in a great deal of time. Therefore, at first, I think I neglected my family a bit. And I think that most businesses are going to tell you the same thing. When you start out you do the job of at least three people. Then there's the financial or monetary challenge if we don't have anything to back us up. Most immigrants don't bring any money, so we don't have any real estate or relatives who have enough money and say to us, “Let's go to the bank and with my house, I can guarantee your loan.” We don't have a credit history to buy the equipment or materials we need. That's why I think the only way is to grow little by little. And as for me, I've liked this way of doing it because I've made headway with firm steps. I haven't been in a situation where I tell myself “I'll take this job of hundreds of thousands of dollars, and then we'll see how we see it through.” It’s the opposite, now we know we can do it because we've grown one step at a time.
Interviewer: How has your business evolved?
Víctor Rojas: As a business I think it's very much as I said before, growing one step at a time and focusing or looking for clients who have a bigger budget, or a project that satisfies us personally, meaning we can pass in front of a house and say, “That's great, I built it!” Sometimes, clients will invite us over and say, “These guys built my kitchen!” I think that as a business and as workers, that's our motivation. Therefore, I think we have to look for what it is that motivates us. It's a self-imposed challenge. And another challenge most businesses have is personnel. To me it means having my fellow workers motivated, and I believe one of the motivations is knowing you are doing something good quality wise. So, thanks to this, we've had fellow workers who have been with our company for many years.
[00:26:50] EVOLUTION OF THE BUSINESS TO THE PRESENT
Interviewer: That's great! So, your business evolved by at first handling remodeling jobs, and now you've gone into self-sustaining homes, from the ground up, or how did it work?
Víctor Rojas: Yes well, at first, we started out with maintenance projects, most of which we got in apartment buildings. They would call us because they needed to get something fixed. And then later, we started getting projects that were a little larger, and that's how we grew. We have also been taking courses and going to school. That's how the business has grown.
Interviewer: What type of publicity have you used?
Víctor Rojas: In services, the most common type of publicity is “word of mouth,” in which a client recommends us to another one, and that one to another one, and so forth. Yes, the best publicity we've had has been our work. And then later, most of the advertising has been by putting our logo on our equipment, on our T-shirts, and our working clothes. But yes, I believe our best publicity is our work.
Interviewer: There is a controversial issue in the sense that you have to look for Latinos because they work cheaper, and they work better. In other words, with Latinos the job is good, pretty and cheap. What do you think about this in terms of the construction business?
Víctor Rojas: I don't think it's a problem that involves only Latinos. I think it's a problem in general. I think that almost anywhere, we can find something like this, good, pretty and cheap. But in terms of the construction business, many times you can't find that. For instance, when I started out, at that point in time, the business didn’t allow me to live like I did before, when I started out.
[00:30:15] ADVICE FOR THOSE THINKING OF GOING INTO BUSINESS
Interviewer: Is there anything you would like to add that we haven't mentioned?
Víctor Rojas: A recommendation I would give to those who want to start a business is that it's always good to invest on yourself: take classes, take courses where you can get a certificate that certifies that you attended the course, that you know how to do such and such, or just to get the know-how you need. Because knowing gives you confidence to speak with the clients. I'd recommend looking at three companies in which you would like to work and choose the one that seems more trustworthy. Sometimes, it doesn't matter who bids the lowest, but who the client thinks will do a better job. So, it is important to attend courses, go to school. And then there's your personnel. I think that your workers also have to know what they're doing. So, it's good to invest in them too.
Interviewer: Would you recommend other people to start a construction business in Madison?
Víctor Rojas: Well, I think anybody could start a construction business in Madison or anywhere. I think that where there are a lot of people, a lot of houses will be needed. So, I think the construction business is good every time.
Interviewer: Thanks very much, Víctor Rojas, for your time and for sharing your story with us, and for positively contributing to our city’s growth. Thanks very much, Victor.
Víctor Rojas: On the contrary, thank you.